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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask if Lord Owen is right about TTIP?

999 replies

SpringingIntoAction · 06/04/2016 16:33

Is former Labour Minister and SDP politician, Lord David Owen right to think that TTIP will be detrimental to the NHS?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/brexit-is-necessary-to-protect-nhs-from-ttip-says-david-owen

OP posts:
MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 07/04/2016 13:22

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MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 07/04/2016 13:23

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SpringingIntoAction · 07/04/2016 13:23

Aw, did MNHQ decide your post had breached Talk Guidelines Hover?

There's one way to avoid that happening to you in future - play nicely.

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butteredmuffin · 07/04/2016 13:24

Yeah, I'm going to go and have my lunch and just let this car crash play out. Spring's incoherent ranting isn't doing the Brexit argument any favours at all.

SpringingIntoAction · 07/04/2016 13:26

So why don't you use any of them then?

You must be a proponent of Lurked' cut and paste school of discussion.

I'm not.

You are an irritating background noise that adds nothing (but abuse) to this discussion.

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SpringingIntoAction · 07/04/2016 13:29

Yeah, I'm going to go and have my lunch and just let this car crash play out. Spring's incoherent ranting isn't doing the Brexit argument any favours at all.

Lol! Lurked and Hover are doing the Brexit campaign a world of good.

People can see that in the absence of any coherent argument for subjugating this country to undemocratic control by a foreign power, the proponents of that case resort to abuse.

That helps the Leave campaign enormously.

Keep voting for Cameron's recommendations.

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MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 07/04/2016 13:32

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lurked101 · 07/04/2016 13:42

"See, there you go again, lowering the tome of the discussion to one of attempting to ridicule someone with an alternative view."

Which you do repeatedly, but why would being a UKIP voter be ridicule? You deWrong.

"Anti EU. Pro controlled migration, forms my own opinions rather than utilising Google search, cut and paste - bingo, which is your preferred approach. finately embody their views."

I don't just go into google to find stuff that embodies my views, I have read a vast amount on this subject as it is one of the major ones of our day. I back my points with the use of data and sources because one of the first thing anti immigration people start saying is "you can't prove that" so I link to my sources to validate my point further. Its an academic practice.

Even in your response to my comment about your knowledge of trade agreements you don't manage to analyse an effect propiosal to the contrary other than we can negotiate our own and better trade agreements, when precednet shows that this is unlikely.

Your conflating your argument with the Hugenots they would be classed as refugees not economic migrants.

"stop clicking on outdated research"

The UCL report is the most comprehensive study on immigration in the UK conducted so far, its conclusions have been extensively peer reviewed and found to by largely correct, and it was published last year. The Oxford Universtiy data finishes in the year end September 2015. How is this out of date?

You presented yourself as the wronged here,, yet have been using ad homs and goading others all the time.

I think you can't take it that I'm winning the argument.

SpringingIntoAction · 07/04/2016 13:42

Smile Grin

Is that an 'educated correct view' from a mature Remain believer?

Keep voting for Cameron's recommendations.

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MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 07/04/2016 13:47

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butteredmuffin · 07/04/2016 13:53

To any intelligent, informed and well-educated Brexit voters out there:

If you don't want us to tar all Brexiters with the same "ignorant and uninformed brush" then you should probably come out of hiding and put forward an intelligent argument for why we should leave. Swing is clearly out of her depth.

HelpfulChap · 07/04/2016 13:54

Of course you are winning Lurked, you are much more cleverererr than wot we are.

lurked101 · 07/04/2016 13:55

I know helpful, good isn't it :)

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 07/04/2016 13:58

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Rainbunny · 07/04/2016 14:09

TTIP worries me greatly as well seeing how a similar agreement with Canada has been implemented. American companies have sued the Canadian government 17 times I believe for not opening up various industry competition to them satisfactorily. These cases are settled by a special court in the USA as their trade deal dictates. How many times have the American companies won these cases? 17 out of 17 times! TTIP is the path by which our industries and public services can be bought and owned by foreign business, such events will do more to change the UK than any national or EU election.

We are screwed in TTIP for sure if we stay in the EU but out of it we at least can pressure our own government for explanation on terms and use political opposition and the House of Lords to place direct pressure on the government concerning such a deal.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 07/04/2016 14:14

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butteredmuffin · 07/04/2016 14:22

Rainbunny, I share your concerns. As do many other people, including Jeremy Corbyn and Caroline Lucas who are both recommending that we vote to remain. Because they have no confidence that Conservatives would actually listen to the public instead of just signing up to an equally-if-not-more damaging agreement with the US at the first opportunity.

lurked101 · 07/04/2016 14:25

The Candadian issue is similar to that of Australia, but when you consider that well over half of Canada's trade is US based the US hold a far stronger hand with Canada than they would with the EU. As said above its one of the reasons the TTIP deal is taking so long to agree, its one of the few times the US can't just say: "Here sign that." as the EU has a very strong negotiating position.

MaidOfStars · 07/04/2016 14:41

This thread has been really educational. Thanks to the contributors.

#teamlurked Grin

StepintotheLightleave · 07/04/2016 14:44

but she's quite entertaining, and is doing a sterling job for the Remain campaign at the moment...

I disagree.

I think there is another poster on here who is the epitomy of the reason why Labour lost the last election.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 07/04/2016 14:47

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StepintotheLightleave · 07/04/2016 14:51

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/labour-left-miliband-hating-english

"The universities, left press, and the arts characterise the English middle-class as Mail-reading misers, who are sexist, racist and homophobic to boot. Meanwhile, they characterise the white working class as lardy Sun-reading slobs, who are, since you asked, also sexist, racist and homophobic. The national history is reduced to one long imperial crime, and the notion that the English are not such a bad bunch with many strong radical traditions worth preserving is rejected as risibly complacent. So tainted and untrustworthy are they that they must be told what they can say and how they should behave"

We nearly have a full bingo card already just on this thread.

lurked101 · 07/04/2016 14:55

Oh dear, I don't think like that at all.

I think Labour lost the last election because they failed to convince the electorate they were a safe pair of hands for the economy, the "note" was a big factor. As was the swing away from the Lib Dems, which tended to go tory.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 07/04/2016 14:56

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HelpfulChap · 07/04/2016 15:07

He who laughs last....

Enjoy looking down your noses at the ignorant & uneducated masses while you can.

If you think the Brexit campaign is all UKIPpers your are sadly mistaken.

As wells as some Tories & UKIP, there is Out&Proud (LGBT), LabourGO, Women for Britain, Veterans for Britain and some SWP members amongst others.

Obviously they are all intellectual minnows compared to the MN Guardianistas but at least it shows a broad spectrum of ignoramuses.