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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask if Lord Owen is right about TTIP?

999 replies

SpringingIntoAction · 06/04/2016 16:33

Is former Labour Minister and SDP politician, Lord David Owen right to think that TTIP will be detrimental to the NHS?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/brexit-is-necessary-to-protect-nhs-from-ttip-says-david-owen

OP posts:
Inkanta · 17/04/2016 12:44

'I'm not going to admit anything, but you can think what you like, denigration is certainly not part of my repitoire.'

Yes it is.

You and MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels have mercilessly set upon Daisy and other mums for having a different opinions. Daisy says herself she feels 'under siege'

So what's all that about? That's not discussion. Why are you here on Mumsnet to do that? Folk are bound to wonder - are you a bloke ..are you a parent?

Inkanta · 17/04/2016 12:55

'And Inkanta - unless you post something relevant to the thread, I'm not going to engage with you any further.'

Well that's a nice easy way out for you.

You go around denigrating mums', call them 'lying gits' and with brains that are falling out, - think you are not wrong in that, don't need to apologise and want to be relevant now to the thread. That's generally your pattern.

Who wants to engage with that. That's my whole point.

That's not generally how we operate on Mumsnet.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 12:58

Don't have to answer any personal questions, do you not get that? I've been here for eons dear, it doesn't matter if you are a parent/woman or not, there are plenty that post that are not.

Daisy has handed it out to others regularly, in fact telling eels that they didn't sound like a normal parent and that they were cold and calculating, however like you are doing now she hides in the parent argument when the facts are refuted. Also its ironic that you are now on the offensive whilst at the same time telling others that they can't do then same.

I'm not going to tell you anything unless I want to and hounding me is certainly not going to get you any answers. You certainly won't stop me posting. Thanks.

Inkanta · 17/04/2016 13:20

'Don't have to answer any personal questions, do you not get that? I've been here for eons dear, it doesn't matter if you are a parent/woman or not, there are plenty that post that are not.'

Poor you. Yes you're entitled to keep mum about your gender and motives on here, and at the same time you're entitled to ride rough shod over this and over threads - swiping at anyone who disagrees with you. Perfectly entitled.

You're a man with a mission.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 13:30

"Poor you. Yes you're entitled to keep mum about your gender and motives on here, and at the same time you're entitled to ride rough shod over this and over threads - swiping at anyone who disagrees with you. Perfectly entitled. "

Which you have said with a complete lack of irony? I have taken quite a bit of abuse from helpful, cut, springing and daisy in the past but now you decide that you are going to have a go to? Are you not swiping at me? Your lack of irony is staggering.

I like the cut and thrust of the debate, and am moI certainly will change my views if I'm given evidence of something yet none of the brexit crowd ever manage to back up their opionions with anything other than a post from the Mail, Telegraph or whatever they then throw ad hominem attacks around and go all: "Oh poor me" when someone has a bit of a go back.

Take this thread for example, now you might now that economics is my field of expertise so this thread was really interesting to me. TTIP is a major debate and not one that should be taken lightly, you need to know all of the facts to do with it. Yet its been invaded by the brexit crowd to be used as a reason for leaving the EU because of ISDS.

However its been explained that ISDS is in most modern trade treaties, that UK firms use them to defend themsevles and that its one of the reasons why the Brexit crew's much vaunted Canadian deal hasn't been signed. Because of the EU's strong negotiating position it doesn't have to agree to the US trade terms.

This got ignored and posters started to attack Eels , who gave it back and then you lot slammed them, then it came back and you did the "woe is me" argument.

Its ridiculous, don't post if you can't debate sensibly. Don't hurl insults if your going to cry when you get them back. Like talking to children this.

Inkanta · 17/04/2016 13:53

'I have taken quite a bit of abuse from helpful, cut, springing and daisy in the past but now you decide that you are going to have a go to? Are you not swiping at me? Your lack of irony is staggering.'

Nope you'can't turn this round and be the victim.

Bullies have a perverse way of making themselves the victim.

I'm not swiping. I'm direct, and damn right I'm on the offensive.

You and Hover have bullied Daisy relentlessly on this and other threads.

butteredmuffin · 17/04/2016 13:59

Ok, I get that this website is mumsnet.

But I think we all know where babies come from, do we not? You know...when a man likes a lady very much and he gives her a special cuddle and they do what humans (and all other animals) have been doing since the dawn of time and nine months later a baby is born?

Yes, that.

So can someone please explain why having had sex and got pregnant and pushed a baby out of your ladyparts (or had a caesarean, whatever) makes you more qualified to comment on whether we should remain in the EU than, say, a man? Or a childless woman?

Mums come in all shapes and sizes. Some are left-wing, some are right wing. Some are religious, some are not. Some are intelligent, others less so.

Being a mum is completely irrelevant to your views on EU membership, or to how valid and informed those views are.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 14:03

"Nope you'can't turn this round and be the victim"

Why do your lot have the copyright on that?

"I'm not swiping. I'm direct, and damn right I'm on the offensive."

Good thing you don't intmidate me then isn't it. You are hardly an intellectual challenge.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 14:05

Oh we haven't bullied Daisy, questioning someone's logic or method of argument isn't bullying. Bullying would be the name calling that your side seem to indulge in more than anything else.

Inkanta · 17/04/2016 14:14

'Oh we haven't bullied Daisy, questioning someone's logic or method of argument isn't bullying. Bullying would be the name calling that your side seem to indulge in more than anything else.'

Relentlessly, patronised, condescended, undermined, denigrated and name called.

You like evidence? Would you like me to cut and paste examples.

Posters on Mumsnet generally don't behave like that - and that's the truth.

This is not a discussion. We have yet to have it. I'm waiting to have it.

butteredmuffin · 17/04/2016 14:17

No, this thread has become a tiresome Punch and Judy show of "You're being a bully!" "No, you are!"

But at least the remainers have actually attempted to put forward arguments based on fact, rather than spamming the thread with links to tabloid articles aimed at the lowest common denominator and bizarre, unsubstantiated claims about what "mums" want.

Inkanta · 17/04/2016 14:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 14:20

I can do the cut and paste thing too, I'm an empty vessel, I'm stupid, I'm irritating background noise, plus others.

When the debate is about the issues, its fine, I do not think I'm patronising. I will question someone who constantly links to the Mail, Telegraph etc to try to justify their opionons, yet claims to know nothing of the vested interests of the owners of those papers.

I will question someone who debates continually on a political/economic issue and when challenged on the stuff that is opined by them hides behind "I'm not a politician, I'm just a mum" or other arguments to that effect. To question someone who mentions the word mum every post, sometimes several times, like it justifies or allows mitigation for their opinion.

Posters on mumsnet btw have behaved far worse than I do. I've been here for donkeys and have seen many posters being insulting to each other over time.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 14:22

You are hardly an intellectual challenge.'

Fuck off!"

I think that might be game, set and match. Point proved.

Inkanta · 17/04/2016 14:30

'I think that might be game, set and match. Point proved'

Is it a game to you. Is it a game of win or lose? I suspect it probably is.

You call me unintelligent - here, or face to face - and you're going to get a 'fuck off'.

That's reality. It gets folks back up. It's denigrating.

Stop it. Try to stop it.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 14:35

Ok, I'll stop it, but you have hounded me here, been very accusatory and said things like:

"I'm not swiping. I'm direct, and damn right I'm on the offensive."

To which that was a response, I'm not intimidated by you, who made it the game?

I was here debating TTIP quite normally.

butteredmuffin · 17/04/2016 14:55

Inkanta: serious question. What are you doing on this thread?

I've just scrolled all the way back to page 13 (that's all I've got time for) and you have not made a single comment about the EU. Literally all your comments have been about other posters.

At least people like Spring, Daisy and HelpfulChap have been expressing their opinions on the topic at hand. I might disagree with their opinions. I might think they're poorly reasoned and unsubstantiated. I might be frustrated at their failure to engage with the points the remain side have made, or the way they throw childish insults around and then accuse the remainers of being rude and not wanting to debate like grown ups. But at least I can respect the fact that they are discussing the topic at hand.

You're not. You're just a cheerleader. So don't come on here purely looking for a fight and then storm off in a huff because you got what you wanted.

Inkanta · 17/04/2016 14:57

'Ok, I'll stop it, but you have hounded me here,'

No. I haven't.

You have hounded Daisy and others day after day after day.

I'm sick of reading it.

Knock it off!

butteredmuffin · 17/04/2016 15:04

"I'm sick of reading it."

Clearly not, otherwise you wouldn't be here.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 15:06

Daisy posts repeatedly, on an open forum, I haven't called her names, I've questioned her logic and the way she posts her arguments. That's fine. You think you haven't hounded me here? You've been doing it for a page at least.

Btw what do you think of TTIP?

CutTheWaffle · 17/04/2016 16:52

A bloke telling mums their brains are falling out! You're a thug.

MyHovercraft is a macho man, Inkanta. He may well behave in this way towards women in Rl.
And Yes, I am a woman, ducky.

butteredmuffin · 17/04/2016 16:55

Who cares whether someone is a man or a woman? Honestly.

StepintotheLightleave · 17/04/2016 17:09

Inkanta - Lurked et al cannot debate like other posters.

If you post they call you a liar, or try and discredit the source.

Which is fine except they have done it to every single post. And in a very rude and derogatory way.

I also agree some comments to Daisy have been awful.

Its a shame but this is a public forum.

butteredmuffin · 17/04/2016 17:12

And Inkanta is not debating about TTIP or the EU at all, just criticising other posters. Don't believe me? Check back through the thread.

lurked101 · 17/04/2016 17:15

I do not denigrate anyone, if you post sources from the Mail/Telegraph or pro brexit sources and say "here's a reason" they are questionable, its fine to question sources of vested interest.

Daisy is a connundrum of a poster, she posts political and economic threads and when challenged on some of her views says: "The I don't know I'm just a mum." She makes attacks on others then you rally round.

I certainly never said that someone's brains were falling out! I have been attacked a fair amount here too.