AIBU to ask if Lord Owen is right about TTIP?

[SpringingIntoAction]

Is former Labour Minister and SDP politician, Lord David Owen right to think that TTIP will be detrimental to the NHS?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/brexit-is-necessary-to-protect-nhs-from-ttip-says-david-owen

As I recall the government was under pressure as they had failed to make any difference on decisions made by the EU. This was a timely opportunity to show they could affect some decisions in the EU.

As I recall the government was under pressure as they had failed to make any difference on decisions made by the EU. This was a timely opportunity to show they could affect some decisions in the EU

Oops.

Oops.

Well, quite...

As previously stated the UK has been on the winning side of votes 90% of the time for the last 6 years. Its not like they fail to make a difference, but they have to get at least 3 other countries to back them. Its almost like the EU is being painted as a bogeyman out to cripple the UK when in reality a strong UK economy benefits the EU greatly.

Ooh just had a look at the other thread. So much linking to the mail, express and telegraph and partisan sites in very unlikely ironic way. Quite funny

I just took the bait. How anybody could think the Express is a reliable source of information is beyond me.

What, you mean Princess Diana wasn't murdered by house prices?

Hahaha!

But on a more serious note, millions of people read the Sun and the Express and the Mail and will vote in the way Murdoch and Co. tell them to. Scary stuff.

Yes, as a nation we're not always terribly good at critical evaluation of bias - only able to see it in source material we disagree with.

I think a lot of people (perhaps not unreasonably) think that newspapers exist to inform them, when the truth is that newspapers exist to make money for their owners, just like any other business, and that those owners can and do influence the editorial leanings of their newspapers to influence public opinion in ways which are beneficial to them.

Its VERY annoying to look at that thread because when impartial information gets quoted here (ONS,OUMO, UCL fact check etc) we get told its biased, there was even a poster who was spouting that the BBC was biased cause it took EU money. But when you look critically at this the university sources have no advantage in producing reports one way or the other, the BBC certainly don't slant their coverage because of 3 million (even 20 million since 2008) when their income from the licence fee is over £3bn. annually.

As I've said before, the right wing do a very good job of casting themselves as the under dog fighting against a liberal elite and it gets bought into by people who think that their interests will be served when almost the opposite is true.

Buttered I couldn't agree more and it does worry me, when people use links from all over including the mail are then sneered at by posters who seemingly only use the Guardian as their sole source of information.

I noticed many years ago the narrow partisan reporting in the Guardian and thankfully, many other people have seen the light, over Cologne, where the reporting in the G fell short, in correct figures etc.

We must all avail ourselves of as much reading matter on subjects that interest us as we can, that includes the Guardian and the Mail actually but no source as a sole source.

As I've said before, the right wing do a very good job of casting themselves as the under dog fighting against a liberal elite and it gets bought into by people who think that their interests will be served when almost the opposite is true

Interesting thoughts, I would amend that too, Labour liberal voters, fighting against labour liberal elite leaders to get back to a party that represents them.

I'm never sure about this Labour party not backing their supporters thing, if you look at their last manifesto it certainly has a lot to offer people. But I do think the Labour elite come over as "North London" though.

Well I don't vote Labour and I don't read the Guardian, so whose agenda am I plugging?

From Daisy, on the other thread:

"Good gracious I really do not care who owns a newspaper if they are actually reporting........
We then are actually informed instead of kept in ignorance."

Argh!

Buttered

Nice sly dig at Daisy's 'ignorance' there. You even had to.come running back here from a different thread to stick the knife in.

Have a brownie point.

*littledrummergirl

The EU measure on blocking steel was an 8% increase in import fees.
The US measure which worked was 266%
I'm not sure the measure would have made much difference anyway.

I think our 12million metric tonnes is put in perspective by China's 822million metric tonnes.

Today 12:28 butteredmuffin

If it didn't make much difference then why would we bother to block it?

littledrummergirl

As I recall the government was under pressure as they had failed to make any difference on decisions made by the EU. This was a timely opportunity to show they could affect some decisions in the EU

JassyRadlett

As I recall the government was under pressure as they had failed to make any difference on decisions made by the EU. This was a timely opportunity to show they could affect some decisions in the EU

Oops.

JassyRadlett

Yes, as a nation we're not always terribly good at critical evaluation of bias - only able to see it in source material we disagree with.*

I quite agree Jazzy. Some people have very poor critical thinking skills.

Buttered muffin
That is unfair quoting me from "The In out shake it all about thread ,what to vote in the EU Referendum."
Scoffing at Daisy's opinion.
You are trying to make me look ignorant when you know I have read extensively.
I am entitled to an opinion but you denigrate me.
Please if you intend quoting me on another thread please do me the courtesy of telling me so I may defend myself.
I only saw this by pure chance.
Because you have done this it underlines your desperation.
I think now that you are a paid person from the In campaign.That is my logical conclusion.
I myself feel the need to vote Leave to protect my children's happiness and future.

Daisy, it was relevant to the point we were discussing, which is that a lot of people think that newspapers such as The Sun are doing a public service by informing people, rather than making money by selling newspapers and pursuing their own (their owners') political agenda in the process. Murdoch will tell you to vote in the way which is best for him, not best for you.

The fact that you thought it was irrelevant who owns a particular newspaper was a perfect demonstration of how naïve you are.

"I think now that you are a paid person from the In campaign.That is my logical conclusion."

Lol, OK. Whatever you say, Daisy.

Buttermuffin
I have already said I read extensively when time permits as a Mum ,ALL the papers.
I think what is annoying you is that we are actually being given information negative to the EU.
This upsets your agenda.
We must agree to disagree.

Butteredmuffin.

You have been clocked. Take it on the chin. You and Lurkin just can't resist denigrating another poster and going onto another thread to do so. That's your downfall.

You have no chance of persuading people to think like you.

If that is really your intention.

Persuasion requires more than bang bang (so called) facts - some humility and humour.