AIBU to ask if Lord Owen is right about TTIP?

[SpringingIntoAction]

Is former Labour Minister and SDP politician, Lord David Owen right to think that TTIP will be detrimental to the NHS?

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/06/brexit-is-necessary-to-protect-nhs-from-ttip-says-david-owen

Toyota said on the 3rd of March that they would cut back after the three years of current investment are over if we exited EU.

That's after Dave got to them. They made their position quite clear while Cameron was still pretending to be swithering between IN / OUT.

Since then, Boeing have announced they will make Britain their new European HQ

www.express.co.uk/finance/city/653737/Boeing-gives-Brexit-ANOTHER-fantastic-boost-by-picking-Britain-for-new-European-HQ

Avon are moving their HQ from the US to the UK

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35808678

And, as I mentioned before, Aston Martin are building a new plant in Wales

uk.reuters.com/article/uk-astonmartin-wales-idUKKCN0VX001

All announced BEFORE the result of the referendum. Obviously the EU referendum result holds no fear for them.

If they had real concerns about Brexit they would not be establishing their businesses here.

The effects of Brexit are overblown by those who wish to scare the electorate into voting for the EU.

Thanks for those links springing, VERY interesting. Very positive article from Vauxhall.

"A British exit from the European Union would not stop Vauxhall from doing business in the UK because it is "unthinkable" that the rest of the bloc would shun a new trade deal, its chairman has said"

"Tim Tozer, who is also managing director of the car maker, described the EU referendum as a "good thing" and said if Britain voted to leave, the company would continue its operations as usual"

"He told the BBC: “I don’t think in that event there would not be a trade agreement with what was left of the EU. We’re a very, very big market for European products, goods and services, and it would unthinkable to us as a corporation that no such trade agreement would ultimately be negotiated if this country chose to leave."

He couldn't sound more strong, more positive or more clear could he.

Since then, Boeing have announced they will make Britain their new European HQ

www.express.co.uk/finance/city/653737/Boeing-gives-Brexit-ANOTHER-fantastic-boost-by-picking-Britain-for-new-European-HQ

Again thanks Springing, however it doesnt surprise me, as its been said - the EU is a sinking ship, its an obvious place to place and keep business, insulated in the UK.

lulmela(sp) thanks for that accounts link too.

BTW:

Tim Tozer is no longer at Vauxhall:

www.autoexpress.co.uk/vauxhall/92911/shock-departure-of-vauxhall-boss

Two big bosses are quoted below:

Tony Walker, Deputy Managing Director, Toyota Motor Manufacturing UK, said, “Our UK operations are fully integrated within our European business – exporting nearly 90 percent of all UK built vehicles. We are very satisfied with the performance our UK operations and are committed to our employees and investments. We also recognise that the UK’s future relationship with the European Union is a matter for the British people to decide. After considered review, we believe that continued membership of the European Union is best for our business and for our competitiveness in the longer term.”

Rory Harvey, Managing Director and Chairman of Vauxhall, said, “The UK is the fourth largest global market for Vauxhall’s parent company GM and the largest EU market. We are part of a fully integrated European company where we benefit from the free movement of goods and people, and we believe not to be part of the EU would be undesirable for our business and the sector as a whole.”

Mike Hawes, SMMT Chief Executive, said, “The message from UK Automotive is clear – being in Europe is vital for the future of this industry and to secure jobs, investment and growth. UK Automotive is thriving, with record car exports, new registrations and the highest manufacturing levels for a decade. Our industry supports 800,000 jobs across the UK and contributes more than £15 billion to the UK economy – our members have clearly stated that pulling out of Europe could jeopardise this."

So we are right to raise it as an issue.

SMMT is a trade association. Trade associations tend to speak for some, but not all, of their members. It's obviously talking for itself as some of the members that I mentioned in my link have already clearly stated, and shown by their actions in investing in the UK, that being in the EU is not actually vital at all, in contradiction of Mr Hawes statement.

When I see a statement from any particular group or company or whatever, after I have looked at who funds them,r I ask myself the question thatTony Benn used to ask

"In whose interests is it that I am being told this?"

I note that their CE has not yet received a knighthood.

I'll tell you what is vital for car industry. Cut the prices. UK prices are excessively high
Price the cars at the correct level and people will buy them whether we are in the EU or not.

Oh springing they represent the car makers, thats who pays them.

Tim Tozer is no longer at Vauxhall:

15 Sep 15 - Tozer says that Vauxhall will stay in the UK regardless

22 Sep 15 - Tozer is removed from his job at Vauxhall.

Next - David Cameron gives pro-EU speech at Vauxhall works

That's just more evidence to me that what he said was the truth.

Just looked back in.

PausingFlatly, I am quite relieved you withdrew your request for another post because I don't think I have enough energy for this any more. This thread has gone completely bonkers.

littledrummergirl, I'm sorry you thought I was being patronising. I genuinely wasn't. You are one of the few people on this thread who seems to be voting for/leaning towards Brexit who is actually making sensible points rather than shrieking like a hysterical child. But I am still slightly disappointed that you think no one has made any decent arguments. I put a lot of effort into my long post and it was intended to get people thinking.

Springing, you do realise my comments about food rationing were tongue in cheek, right? I mean, I admitted in the actual post that I was joking. It was supposed to be a light-hearted way of drawing attention to the fact that if the pound falls, all the food we import will be more expensive, and we can't just produce all our food here in the UK because we don't have the capacity for that.

Still, I'm astounded to see that you did actually read my long post, because I was under the impression that you weren't actually interested in facts or debate, and just here to goad people with silly comments like, 'You're voting for Cameron! You are! You're voting for him and you won't even admit it! Hahahaha!"

Seriously. You have the mentality of an eight year old.

Good night and good luck, everyone. I'm bowing out.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11731694/Brexit-vote-could-trigger-European-free-market-chain-reaction-say-Swiss-and-Icelandic-MPs.html

another interesting article on that link springing.

Mr Thordarson rejected arguments that outside of the EU, the UK would have less control of its trade. Critics of independence from the EU have argued that Britain would continue to be subjected to rules determined in Brussels by trading with Europe, but be left without a voice to help determine those rules.

“Those who say you can not influence Brussels outside, they are the one who can not even influence their own trade policy,” he said. EFTA members can negotiate their own treaties with non-EU countries, a freedom the UK lacks.

Standing outside of the EU, these countries are able to forge their own trade deals with the world’s rapidly expanding emerging markets. EFTA member Switzerland has trade treaties with China and Japan, and is negotiating terms with India, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam and the Philippines.

Mr Thordarson said: “I have not met any parliamentarian in any EFTA country who wouldn’t want Britain in, it’s quite obvious it’s in everyone’s interests to have Britain in EFTA.” Responding to claims that the UK could be left without trade links outside the EU, he said that the UK faces “enormous opportunities outside the EU”.

CB I say brexit would damage the economy, validating my analysis of pages back:

uk.businessinsider.com/cbi-eu-referendum-brexit-economic-analysis-job-losses-huge-costs-and-personal-finance-impact-2016-3

Oh springing they represent the car makers, thats who pays them.

Agreed. That doesn't mean that they represent the view of ALL their members. We know that for a fact because some of their members have already said that their presence in the UK is not dependant on the Uk being in the EU. It is not vital. to them

CB I say brexit would damage the economy, validating my analysis of pages back:

The CBI are utterly discredited. They wanted the UK to join the Euro. Nobody listens to them anymore.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/120407.stm

Even Digby Jones a former CBI Director wants to leave the EU.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10432124/Digby-Jones-UK-must-quit-EU-unless-it-radically-reforms.html

Buttered

'You have the mentality of an eight year old'

I thought you said you hadn't insulted anybody?

You and #TeamLurked have been insulting people since the start of the thread.

Seriously. You have the mentality of an eight year old.

And with a final flourish of her trade mark abuse ButteredMuffin left the thread.

A decision I welcome, as the tone has improved considreably since she stopped posting.

Although one thing in your favour, at least you are not the Uber-condecending Hovercraft.

The former head of Vauxhall said that, not the current one.

they said that 88% of the big firms would prefer to stay and 77% of their members overall, which is quite a majority.

I

(In Buttered's favour).

Helpful

I'm prepared to draw a line under the abuse on this thread asm since some posters have left, the thread has returned to being an informative discussion. I didn't know that Tozer had been kicked out of Vauxhall - I have Lurked to thank for bringing that to my attention.

I'll carry on here if we all carry on playing nicely. If it descends into abuse - I can be goaded into doing abuse too.

and hang on I haven't insulted anyone!

You and #TeamLurked have been insulting people since the start of the thread.

That really is the ultimate example of the pot calling the kettle black. But I have no desire to prolong this shit show any longer by getting into a "You're insulting people!" "No! YOU'RE insulting people!" type of exchange.

lurked, I suggest you do the same. Brexit HQ are clearly not interested in having a debate and these are precious hours of our lives we will never get back.

Night everyone.

Just reading about "state aid rules".

Maybe someone else can explain them in simple terms to me.

But the jist I am getting is, Germany/Italy/France can all use state backed capital to help their industries?

We cannot do this because we would fall foul of EU Rules. ( good example of the red tape some people desperately wanted to see evidence of).

They can do it because they set theirs up BEFORE the Treaty Of Rome????

Stepintothelight you're out of luck. State aid is my area of expertise. It is literally what I get paid to advise on. And you've got the wrong end of the stick - the same rules apply to everyone. There is no different rule for France, Germany or Italy. But I'm not going to do you a post on it now because Swinging and her friends have demonstrated that this is a complete waste of my time.

State aid is my area of expertise. It is literally what I get paid to advise on.

God help us.