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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Son with older guy

129 replies

ninaneedshelp · 04/04/2016 19:12

Hi all, could do with an opinion or two.

I have two sons, one's 20 and at university and my other's 15, about to turn 16. Recently I found texts on youngest son's phone of a flirty nature from an older guy, this took me by surprise as he hasn't come out to me, but I did always wonder. What shocked me more was that the messages were from someone who sounded awfully familiar, turns out it's a friend of my eldest son that went to school with him.

Now the thread title may be assuming more, but either way, it seems they're quite close. I'm not cross and I love him to bits no matter what, I haven't spoken to him about it yet, but I'm wondering how to? Do I wait for him to come to me or do I sit him down and tell him that I know? If there are any members on here with gay children that have experienced this, your replies would be a great help. And AIBU to be a little worried that he's seeing this older boy? I really don't want to see him getting hurt, but maybe I should stay out of it and let him make his own mistakes? I just feel so conflicted on how to handle this!

OP posts:
Jeremysfavouriteaunt · 05/04/2016 13:41

we're dragging in cases that have been in the news, just remember things went downhill very fast indeed when Breck Bednar's mother forbade him to contact the man who was grooming him and eventually murdered him

And that poor mother was right to be concerned, she was let down by the authorities who she begged for help. I think it's disgraceful to use that as a consequence of 'snooping'.

Haffdonga · 05/04/2016 13:42

And OP, as a mum I'd suggest you just open a conversation with Hey ds2, I was cleaning your room and a load of really explicit messages came up on your screen from x. So is something going on between you two?

BertrandRussell · 05/04/2016 13:42

I would not want my 15 year old, regardless of sex or sexuality having a relationship with someone 5 years older.

You know about it now, OP- however you acquired that knowledge, you can't un -know it.

So you need to talk to him. "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have read your text but I did, and it worried me. Can we have a chat about it?

Haffdonga · 05/04/2016 13:46

I disgaree too that 5 years is not much difference when you're 15. It is probably the age in life when that 5 year age gap creates the greatest difference.

My teens think it's a little weird even going out with someone in the year above or below at school. 5 years is a generation at that age!

RufusTheReindeer · 05/04/2016 14:48

Agree with jeremy

I saw a text on dds (year 9) phone saying to a lad (year10)

"So are you trying to go out with me beacuse you cant get a girl your own age"

Felt quite sorry for him to be honest

0christmastree5 · 05/04/2016 15:01

Amazed at the number of posters agast at a mother looking at their 15 yo phone message tbh.
I'd say it's time to say to your son what you said here in your opening. You are checking they are ok, that's it. I bloody wish someone has checked I was ok at 15.

SuburbanRhonda · 05/04/2016 16:43

I think it's disgraceful to use that as a consequence of 'snooping'.

It certainly would be if that's what I'd said in my post Hmm

BertrandRussell · 05/04/2016 16:57

"The majority of 15 year olds are having sex however shocking it may seem."

Really? Where did you get that statistic?

witsender · 05/04/2016 17:01

Another aspect of this is that it was a big brother's friend. The dynamic is odd there, he knows the younger child as a little brother...when I was growing up it would be unheard of for one of your mates to date a younger sibling! It is a boundary. And that worries me about the older one in this. 20 is an adult, 15 is not.

Clobbered · 05/04/2016 17:10

If you saw that message, then others could see similar ones when he is out with friends - would he be comfortable with that? Could be a way in to the conversation with him?

Big brother's friend issue could go either way - weird power dynamic from having known him for ages, including when he was much younger. Alternatively it could be a very positive thing - someone who knows the family, knows your son very well, and possibly cares more than a casual boyfriend, and perhaps is in a better position to guide him gently through a first relationship? Might have spotted very early on that he was gay and again, this could be either a good or a bad thing. How well do you know the chap? Does your older son have any view on the situation? Is he still friendly with DS1?

Bluelilies · 05/04/2016 17:21

witsender - when I was 15/16 we spent a lot of time fancying our friends older brothers. It wasn't unheard of for 16 year olds to go out with 19/20 year olds either. A bit of an age gap, likely to cause a bit of talk, but not outrageous. The dynamic between siblings can vary too - sometimes they hang out a lot together in a mixed age group, and the gap doesn't feel very significant by mid/late teens. Other 15/16 year olds can be very immature - but presume the OP is best placed to judge her own DS on this front.

My DSD had a 17 year old BF when she was 15, which we were OK about - despite her being technically underage. She then (aged nearly 16) had a BF who was older (20/21 I think), who she kept secret because she thought we (or her mum possibly) would disaprove. It was much harder to keep her safe and guide her about relationships when she was lying about where she was a lot of the time. Checking your child is safe and opening the doors to a conversation about sexuality, boundaries, age gaps and consent, is completely at odds with checking up on them behind their back and confronting them about things, or telling them they're "not allowed" to have a relationship because they're underage.

They don't listen. They do it anyway. You are much less able to guide them to do it safely. And they won't come to you easily if they do get in out of their depths.

Capricorn76 · 05/04/2016 17:57

What is wrong about telling a gay child that they need extra protection? HIV amongst gay men is on the increase. Information reduced risks.

witsender · 05/04/2016 17:59

I fancied a lot of friends' elder brothers, but they would never have 'gone there' as I was their little sister's mate. The dynamic would have been too weird, and socially not done.

Capricorn76 · 05/04/2016 18:05

Also it really isn't normal for a 20 year old to pursue a 15 year old. Most 20 years old would see 15 year olds as children. I've seen 16 year olds have the piss ripped out of them for dating 14 year olds.

Could you speak to his older brother about it? He may know more/facts?

cakeycakeface · 05/04/2016 19:19

When I was 15 a 20 year old guy started phoning me. I instinctively knew my parents would not be happy and would take the call on a phone on the other side of the house to hide from dad. But I didn't know how to handle the situation and didn't particularly want him calling me.

Within 2-3 calls my father worked out what was going on, and I was told bluntly, 'Either you tell him to stop calling, or I will'.

I was so incredibly relieved to be able to tell him my father was insisting he leaves me alone, so utterly relieved dad had helped me resolve it. The whole experience was so stressful for me. 15 can be young and naive for first time relationships.

Incidentally, this guy had a friend who was calling a 14year old girl I knew. He went on to rape her.

BreakfastLunchPasta · 05/04/2016 19:23

Exactly Capricorn. I'm quite upset by the number of people on this thread that appear to think it's fine.
If someone 5 years older wanted to date my 16y dd she'd be creeped out and wonder what was wrong with them.

AlbaAlba · 05/04/2016 21:13

You might find this site a useful source of information and advice - emptyclosets.com

They're really supportive on there and have sections for family and friends. You could even suggest your son looks there for support when you have that conversation with him (and no one is allowed to reveal real world contact info - they get banned).

If I were you, after maybe reading up, talking to some others in similar positions/experience on empty closets, I would apologise to him that you saw a private message, and give him openings to talk. Make it clear that you love him absolutely and nothing could change that.

AlbaAlba · 05/04/2016 21:16

And yes, it could be a problematic relationship - because I don't know of many 20 yr old guys interested in 15 yr olds - but most likely he's confiding in him because he's gay, older, more experienced, providing support - could be a really positive thing. Your eldest son in this case probably know your younger one is gay/bi. But it would be unfair to force a confidence.

FithColumnist · 05/04/2016 23:46

I'm not sure whether I'm mansplaining here or gaysplaining. Those who are more adept at noting these things will no doubt let me know.

OP, it seems you have two issues here: firstly that you've found out that your DS is gay, the second that he's messaging a guy five years older than him.

Issue 1: ye gods, don't mention it before he does. It is a massive thing, coming out to your parents, and pre-empting it is just awful. Drop hints and emphasise how liberal and accepting you are, by all means, but don't ask him outright if he's gay. That's his to tell people as and when he feels happy to do so. My parents were among the last people that I told, because their reactions meant so much to me. (My mother, who was a florist and involved in AmDram told me not to be so daft, as I'd "make a crap gay", while my homophobic father said "I'm happy that you've finally told me". Horses for courses, I guess.) Ultimately, it's something you need to "let him have", as it is formative as a homosexual man.

Issue 2: Eeeh. For all those that say "if it were a fifteen year old girl messaging a twenty year old man...", I'll point out that for most gay teenagers, there's precious little out there. Your son might be the only guy in his year (as far as he knows) to be gay: where's he going to find somebody to explore this with? Is he just going to have to wait a couple of years until he gets to university?

On the other hand, if I were a parent, I would be less than impressed. For example, when I came out at 16, my first proper "gay" boyfriend (as opposed to any "experimentation") was 26. I would have loved to have had a boyfriend of my own age, but he was pretty much the only other gay single guy I knew. We went out for about six weeks until he dumped me. A few years later I found out that my mum knew his mum and had had a word, pointing out that nobbing a sixteen year old boy was a bit noncey, and so he dropped me.

I didn't feel taken advantage of, far from it. However, in OP's case I would monitor the situation closely: if her DS is sixteen soon, then it's legal soon. However, that doesn't necessarily make it right, but nor does it make it wrong. Keep an eye: is he happy, and is he being taken advantage of? Looking back, I "took advantage" of my much older boyfriend as an "in" to gay society- he never took advantage of me. As long as your DS is the one in control, then maybe this is something that he needs as a stepping stone? I know that's what my boyfriend was to me at the time.

OP: in summary, don't say a word, just keep an eye and be there. That's what my DM did for me, and my god but do I thank her for it.

differentnameforthis · 06/04/2016 08:35

And if the boy knows you know him, surely he's less likely to be grooming your son? Plenty of abused children have been abused by those close to them in some way. Grooming in this case would be to gain the young lad's trust, to let him know that he can confide in him, etc. All done to create a reliance on him, and perhaps divide him from his family. So no, it really isn't unlikely that the friend could be grooming him.

differentnameforthis · 06/04/2016 08:38

he never took advantage of me. I beg to differ. I am not going to re-write your past, but an adult, 10yrs your senior, having a sexual relationship with a barely legal teen...there is an element of advantage taking, imo!

acasualobserver · 06/04/2016 08:47

You say, I am not going to re-write your past. And then you do!

septembersunshine · 06/04/2016 09:18

Just wondering if you had a conversation with him it might take the pressure off him having to tell you. Just the whole build up of 'when/if/how to tell'. I am not suggesting you outright confront him but leave the conversation very open and give him a chance to tell you. Maybe it would be a relief for him not to have to hide this part of himself? I only speak from the experience of having a gay brother-in-law and what he has told me about coming out to my DH's parents. You sound lovely by the way op, I am sure with you supporting him he will be just fine. So you read his text - worse crimes. If he was desperate to hide this you would surely make sure the message screen wasn't showing. Ever.

differentnameforthis · 06/04/2016 09:28

I said it was my opinion. That doesn't mean you have to agree with me, and if you don't, how can I be re-writing your past?

RufusTheReindeer · 06/04/2016 10:13

fith

Can i pm you with a potentially twattish and pig ignorant question about coming out?