To 'confront' this man when he asked for the priority seat on the bus

[YoJesse]

Me and Ds 3 were on a really packed bus, no seats left at all. I was standing and Ds was on one of the priority seats. The other 7 priority seats were taken up with what looked like young able bodied people and on Dad with a baby.

A man 50ish gets on, walks past all the other seats and says to me 'I'm disabled, can you move your son?' I got Ds up without questioning it but then I heard the Dad with the baby say to the man 'fucking hell, seriously mate?' This got me thinking that maybe it was a bit unfair so I tapped him on the shoulder and said 'as you can see I'm happy to give up the seat for you but as you can see there are lots of young, able looking people on the other priority seats, don't you think you should of asked them not my son?' He then goes off on one say ' I'm disabled, your son should be sitting in here in the first place etc' so I said that he is less able to stand on a moving bus than most other people so maybe he is entitled to the seat. The man got all sweaty and angry and I felt really uncomfortable so I got off.

Was I unreasonable to confront him?

If the bus is crowded of course the seat should be used, common sense is that seats are used rather than left empty. Difficult with regard to the actions of the man who said he was disabled, as clearly he should have access to the seats if i deed he was. I agree that it is easier to target a young child than an older person which is probably why he did this - that does not make his actions right.

*under 6 year olds sorry

You'll get nowhere on mumsnet on this topic because reasons.

And I'm not necessarily condoning how you handled it at the time.

However, you are right. There were almost certainly better candidates to give up a seat than your DS.

sch not having a go at anyone especially, sorry that my post made you feel that way.

It's just on MN I see all sorts of comments made about that's just how it is with over 50s, or all younger people. explaining bad behaviour is because that is the way a whole generation are perceived makes me cross.

I think your anger is misplaced. I'm shocked that a whole bus load of people didn't offer your 3 yo a seat.

Funny thing- I remember being desperate to give up my seat for the elderly years and years before my mother would let me. Four-year-old me could not understand why she wouldn't let me.

My lord, do I get it now!

OP I think you were probably the safest person for him to approach.

You say the other people looked able-bodied and were young, he may have been wary of their reaction to him. The other person was a man with a baby, and probably wouldn't have been a good choice to ask as he turned out to be a bit aggressive sounding anyway.

In a week when a fifty-year old woman with MS can be punched in the face by a 20-something year old able-bodied man over a parking space, and have her jaw broken in four places with just one punch, I don't blame anyone for approaching the person who looks the least likely to verbally abuse or physically attack them.

My lovely friend, who is in her sixties, who has problems with her back, who suffers from vertigo and fibromyalgia, had her car damaged when she parked in a bay for disabled people, displaying her blue badge, because some idiot passing by decided she wasn't disabled enough as she wasn't in a wheelchair.

Another friend gets regular abuse when she goes out on her mobility scooter. People don't want her on the path, they don't want her on the road, they don't want her in their way in shops, they seem to think that entering the supermarket magically gives her the ability to walk again. She gets told to stay at home, to get out of the fucking way, to speed up, to slow down. No matter what she's doing, someone thinks she should be doing it somewhere else, as far away from them as possible. She gets told she's too young to be disabled, called too fat and lazy to walk, accused of faking her disability for the money.

People are aggressive and rude to people with disabilities, they face this sort of thing on a daily basis, and as my friends both say, they don't know who's going to turn on them or for what.

I agree with you that smaller children are probably safer sitting down, I'd let my son sit down while I stood too. I'm steadier on my feet than he is. But I think you probably appeared to be the safest person to ask on the bus and he was probably upset that the man with the baby started swearing at him and questioning him, and then you joined in by challenging him about his reasons for asking you.

He will get that sort of thing all the time, and I feel a bit sorry for him really. At best he could have done a more general approach to asking everyone if they could let him have a seat, but I'm prepared to bet that he would be ignored at least half the time for doing that. People have a remarkable habit of not hearing or seeing the person doing the asking if they aren't directly approached.

pinot that does make me feel bad that he might of been asking because I looked the least threatening

That's very probably why he asked you. Look at the Dad's reaction after he'd explained he was disabled... That man probably faces that frequently when he travels on buses and needs a seat.

I cannot believe you thought confronting a disabled person was appropriate. Oh, and those young, apparently able bodied people might not have been. I'm 37 and if you'd seen me on a bus without my power chair you would probably make that assumption. Only I have rheumatoid arthritis.

Hell - even on a train last night I couldn't get into the wheelchair area as two people were reclined in each of the seats next to the bays. They studiously ignored me and the conductor and shielded their faces and looked out of the window. I wasn't challenging them, I feel pretty bloody vulnerable in my chair (not had it long). I ended up in the area between the seats and loo.

In an ideal world yes a child would be sat down, and the op would have been within her rights to politely ask someone else for a seat if they could. Of course they aren't obliged too though.

However no matter what someone with a disability shouldn't be left standing when there is an alternative.

Thankfully when Ds is out he will be in his SN buggy so is always sat down, we just have the battle to get people to understand it's not a normal buggy and it certainly isn't a case of just collapse it and get him out but that's a whole different rant!

I think your whole trip was a bit of a mess!
I also agree that he could have asked another passenger, however I also can see why he might have asked you. Do you have a kind face?

I'm also quite suspicious by nature, and would wonder if he was lying to get a seat t perhaps?
Yes, I am aware of hidden disabilities. ( My mum being someone who has them)
Just chalk it up to experience. Don't blame yourself.
In an ideal world they'd be enough seats for all. Till then, do the best you can.

This won't be a popular opinion but, tbh, I think it's better not to sit in the priority seats at all, unless you are a 'priority passenger': I.e. You have a disability that affects your ability to stand, you're pregnant, elderly or carrying a baby.

Or at least, don't use one unless doing so will still leave one or two empty.

I don't think priority passengers should be put in the position of having to pick 'the best person' to ask to move. Or make a general request and then stand there awkwardly. It's not fair.

bishop I get that all 6 of those people could all have a hidden disability but it's not really the point is it? Are you suggesting that he might of come to that conclusion and thought, hmm they all just might have hidden disabilities. I'll try that child's seat instead?

I absolutly respect that people have hidden disabilities but my belief in this never really played a part in this situation. It was never about that, I did not question him on it. I questioned why he chose us and have been told I shouldn't have done this. I've taken that on board.

I absolutly agree sirzy no one with a disability should be left standing. I don't think I ever suggested otherwise.

Ohhhh ok. So those of us with hidden disabilities shouldn't ask as other people will suspect us of faking. Noted.

I'll just stand and endure the exhaustion and joint damage, then. Can't possibly put upon others.

It's already a world where I fear challenging people in dedicated wheelchair areas. I'm right to just shut up and put up though, obviously.

No I don't think all 6 had hidden disabilities at all.
I do think I would consider them extremely intimidating though, especially the bloke with the baby.

Was the post that started ' ohh ok' to me?

A question for all of those with hidden disabilities (not meaning to be goady here it is a genuine question)

What would you do if all the seats were occupied and when you do ask if someone could move because you have a disability and they refuse and say they do too, would do you do and think?

I've definatly taken the who I'm don't look intimidating thing on board bishop and as I said up thread if that was why he asked me it does make me feel shitty.

No, the poster that said they'd be suspicious at him asking for a seat

Ok

Stand and suffer joint damage. Not much else to do, is there?
Which is why I now have a power chair.
Still encounter unbelievable twattishness, though (see train post)

I am now an essential wheelchair user and buses are an absolute nightmare - and especially intimidating when alone.I once had to sit at a bus stop and wait for 8 buses as driver after driver refused to take me - only one told the mum/pushchair on board she had to move and she outright refused 'I was here first' all the other bus drivers simply told me to wait for the next as a pushchair on.

Before things deteriorated to this point I was often given absolutely filthy looks for sitting if there was limited chairs, I remember one time in a theatre particularly. A man with his elderly mother looked at me like I was scum of the earth because seated I looked like the average 30 yr old.

That bloke was probably at the bus stop thinking 'god I hope I get a seat no bother without having to fight for it again'

You know YABU at this point though.

In answer to NN - even before I deteriorated it was visible but if refused a seat I would have to get off the bus or fall on the floor and stay there.

EverySongbird, that is appalling.

Is it even legal for bus drivers to do that? Surely a wheelchair trumps a pushchair? (Which is presumably being pushed by someone who can walk.)

If not, it should.