To wonder why any woman would work as a 'pornstar'....

[Flashbangandgone]

...unless it was the only way
a) to make ends meet and put food on the table and secure a roof over their family's head, or
b) to pay for an expensive drug habit....

Surely it's not just prostitution in private (which is bad enough), but prostitution broadcast to the world! I just can't imagine why anyone would do it as a lifestyle choice?

Even the shaggers with bad teeth, stinking breath, hygiene issues, a thinly veiled hatred of women....I could go on

Sounds just peachy as a career move.

No you don't shag. You do what the man who is having sex with you wants. That means having sex with any man in the way that gets him off. Many men say they pay for sex because they want to do things their wives won't agree to. Or they do not want to have to think about what she would enjoy.
If you really think that is a good "career choice" for your daughter, I think you urgently need some family therapy.

Not RTFT but DH and I were discussing how porn has changed so much since we were kids. In the 70s it was only soft core available in the UK. I remember going to Majorca in the early 80s and being stunned at the magazines on full display with hard core sex on the front covers. Videos used to get passed round my workplace (an engineering factory). There were a couple of enterprising apprentices who traded grainy VHS copies of stuff that would probably be regarded as fairly tame now. Apparently VHS outstripped Betamax tapes (which were a superior format and run by the major companies at the time, Sony and Sanyo) specifically because porn was recorded on VHS in the United States, Betamax died a death as a result.

When Sony manufactured the Playstation they put a BluRay player in every one because at that time, it was the favoured porn format and they didn't want to miss the boat second time round.

Now all anyone has to do is have a smartphone to get access to pretty brutal stuff so I do actually wonder how anyone makes any real money out of it these days.

I haven't watched a lot of porn, and it's all been very straightforward stuff but I get a bit freaked out by what my teenagers have probably seen with me not having a clue. It's come a long way from finding a jazz mag under your Dad's bed or stuffed in a hedge.

A lot of the trouble associated with porn is not to do with porn at all, but stems from institutionalised misogyny and patriarchal religion (religion being the driving force behind misogyny because that's what religion is for - to peddle whatever brand of made-up bullshit can be used to convince people that reproduction is under the control of men, rather than women).
So there is a deep-rooted cultural belief that women who will engage in sex willingly, particularly non-reproductive sex, are disgusting sluts who cannot be trusted, hence the difficulty faced by women who did or currently are doing a bit of porn for fun/money/any other reason, or who have decided that any other kind of sex work is preferable to 'respectable' service industry work which offers far lower hourly rates, little or no job security and quite often pressure to service male bosses or co workers sexually as well... They feel they have to keep any kind of sex industry work a deadly secret and be ashamed of it or they will lose their current 'respectable' jobs and, if they are mothers, be investigaged by SS. The contemporary insistence that women in the sex industry are all damaged, helpless victims might seem to be a kinder, fairer way of looking at things but it again denies women agency and autonomy when it comes to sex.
Sex (apart from reproductive PIV, which can itself be functional, boring and undergone out of a sense of duty - you don't feel at all lusty but it's your fertile day, etc) is basically a big game. It's fun to play and it can be fun to watch other people play it. It's unsurprising that it's as open to abuse and exploitation as any and every industry in the world, and this is bad, but exploitation and abuse are the problems, not sex.

Sex can be fun and pleasurable. Women being for sale to provide sex is oppressive to all women. No woman should be able to bought like this.

Cleaty, having sex for money is not making yourself 'for sale'. Once the agreed transaction ( payment for certain activities undertaken) has been completed, you are under no obligation whatsoever to the person who paid you, any more than you would be if you were paid for painting someone's house, cooking someone a meal or cutting their hair. Your 'self' is not compromised in any way by engaging in sexual activity with another person.

Lack of self respect, self worth or opportunities for a career in anything you need to use your brain for.

I think it shows more self respect to choose sex work over other kinds of badly paid, insecure unskilled work. It's not a good thing that people should have to engage in work they don't much like or they will starve, but while there are insufficient well-paid secure jobs available, it's not doing 'women' as a group any favours to insist that they reject jobs they have decided will pay them a higher hourly rate and be at least no more unpleasant than the other jobs supposedly available to them.

I don't understand why some cant accept that actually, some women will buy into the whole sex sells thing and see porn as a quick way of making a big sum of money. They don't care if you disapprove, unfortunately.

I don't understand why some cant accept that actually, some women will buy into the whole sex sells thing and see porn as a quick way of making a big sum of money. They don't care if you disapprove, unfortunately.

I accept it completely. Most of these women will never have the choices I and my children have. so of course they go for the choice of porn or some other aspect of the sex industry.

And I DON"T disapprove of them. I disapprove (too weak a word) of a society and a system that pushes women and men into porn because there are no other options and it is one of the few things that might bring a big buck quick. I disapprove of poor people being made to do work no middle class person would willingly do.

I am educated and now middle class. I've cleaned toilets/waited tables/served in shops. I expect my daughters will do the same. My son certainly has. At least one of my daughters may well end up doing low-paying work most of her life. And yet, funnily enough, I will never ever say to them "hey you know porn pays really well and is no more unpleasant than cleaning toilets would you not try that??" My likely to end up in low paying job daughter is remarkably beautiful. Why am I not encouraging her to consider the sex industry?

Is there anyone on here who professes that being a porn star is just fine who would offer it as a career option to their child?

the acid test for me is that the middle and upper classes would be quite happy for their children to spend a summer or two cleaning or slopping out toilets or working in an abattoir But there is no way on god's earth that they would be happy with their children spending a summer doing porn.

The day porn is seen as a reasonable summer job for a middle class student is the day I will see it as just another option for low paid workers. until then I will continue to see it as a job society (us) are happy to have the poor/vulnerable/no choice/at the edge people do...but not our children.

In my estimation young people are pretty good at knowing what career they wish to pursue, they don't turn around and say "OK mum" to whatever career choice you have in mind for them. Hence I don't see why its oft repeated "I wouldn't suggest it as a career for my daughter".

Who on here decides their child's career for them? & is it a usual thing that porn stars mothers have suggested a porn career for them and then they had a lightbulb moment? I doubt it.

Its a standalone situation that some just can't accept as it is, so will use other narratives to sway thought ie "the career choice for my daughter" thing, as if thats their norm or even has anything to do with this. Anyone not agreeing with their point of view is finger-pointed as supporting porn or wanting to be a porn-star themself. Its just a standard way of shutting down conversation with deflection when you feel you don't hold the majority, thats all

Separate the emotive rally-calling, and the facts remain the same. Its an exploitative industry but some women will see it as a quick buck and have done pretty well moneywise out of it. I would be more interested in hearing why some feel that way re. a career that must erode the self-esteem, not to mention compromise safety (sexual health etc), than a bunch of people scorning them both openly and convertly, with the expectation that everyone else must do the same.

Usual patronising responses from those who have never had real life experience within the sex industry. I very much enjoyed my days as an escort during my 20s. Far from erode my self esteem - it bolstered it. Far from putting myself at risk health wise - i had never been so careful with protection and sti tests. I enjoyed the money from working very little, enjoyed the sex, meeting people, making my own hours. I am now a mother back in education and look back upon those times as exciting and fun. The sex industry is vast and not everyone is emotionally damaged or abused. Wouldnt be a pornstar though - value my privacy!

I also had choices. I went to a grammar school and got excellent gcses. I have just received a scholarship for my current mode of study. Please do not generalise. I enjoyed the informality, sex, money etc and chose to pick up my alternative choices later in life. Its funny how mumsnet posters usually advocate not generalising or certain group of people, but it seems ok to do this in regards to sex workers...

Although please do not misconstrue my posts as a denial of the dangerous side of the sex industry, merely pointing out that sex workers are not a homogenous group.

choccywoccy - And you totally dismiss others here without knowing anything about them.
You were very lucky if you never experienced violence from any punters, most women do. How long were you an escort for?

I wonder if the women on this thread who say they've been involved in porn or prostitution would be quite as happy if they'd been one of the women who has to give oral sex to the point of vomiting, or walk the streets in a red light district?
It's a bit was easier to defend the "sex industry" if you've only been involved in a 'little light spanking' or the 'glamorous' world of being a highly-educated woman who just moonlights as a prostitute for fun at her own choice.
It's probably, I imagine, a bit more unpleasant and soul-destroying if you're a drug-addicted prostitute who's working the streets after coming out of care, or a child sex abuse survivor who's so fucked up she ends up falling into "glamour" modelling and then porn, to be fucked for money instead of raped for free.
Anyone defending this "industry" is minimising these women's pain.

Anyone I have known where I know their background in the sex industry who talks about it as fun, has very very minimal experience. Such as on sex chat lines for a few months, or doing web cam.
I slept rough for 2 nights. I would not pretend that I know what it is like to be homeless. I don't. So I didn't experience any violence those 2 nights. But I know that most homeless people do.

WhatdoIget: the answer is not 'blame the sex industry', though. Improving the care system and the options for people coming out of care, better provision of MH care for abuse survivors, and addressing once and for all the clusterfuck of drug prohibition (not to mention the hideous mess the government is making of the economy) these would all be far more positive steps than insisting no woman could or choose sex work.

Who does she work for, out of interest?

I'm guessing for many of the people entering the porn industry, the lure of the millionaire lifestyles of its most successful performers has something to do with it.
When people like Bella Donna, Sasha Grey, Mandingo, Cyntheria and Lex Steele are tweeting pics of their new Lamborghinis, and swish condos in Palm Springs, it's hard to equate that with trafficking and abuse.

Saw the story about amber Rayne - this sounds pretty bad tbh and how does this end up tolerated by that industry?!!!!

Her account of how she was treated by James deen was terrible

We need a more ethical version of an industry that exploits people who've been sexually abused, SGB? I'm not sure I can get behind that

Why can you not get behind making an industry ethical (ie one that does not exploit people?) is your argument that people who have experienced abuse should be prohibited from working, for their own good, because they are a monolithic victim class with no choice or agency? Or can you not get past the idea that sex for money is so disgusting that no one could possibly choose to do it, and anyone who thinks they are making a free choice needs to be prevented from doing so, for their own good?

No I can't get past the idea that vulnerable people are often being exploited, and are susceptible to being exploited in this way due to their past abuse. I don't think having sex for money is disgusting, I think paying for sex is disgusting. I include commissioning pornography in paying for sex.