To wonder why any woman would work as a 'pornstar'....

[Flashbangandgone]

...unless it was the only way
a) to make ends meet and put food on the table and secure a roof over their family's head, or
b) to pay for an expensive drug habit....

Surely it's not just prostitution in private (which is bad enough), but prostitution broadcast to the world! I just can't imagine why anyone would do it as a lifestyle choice?

I don't think any one ever grows up thinking they want to be a porn star it's something a lot of people end up doing not really knowing how they got there .
I disagree that it's women that were abused etc .
It's actually quite hard to become a well paid adult movie star these days due to the rise of web cams and most also work as prostitutes in the beginning as the money is better .
I've had past experience in the industry and its not as seedy as everybody thinks I do feel that most documentaries Show the worst parts and it's degrading to women .
With regards to drugs most large companies will not tolerate the use of drugs or use anyone under the influence as that's what results in the dead eyes that people have commented on .

Because we can!

Because feminism is about supporting a women's choice to do with her body as she wishes without judgement from others.

If she wants to have sex on camera for money, how does it effect your life?

I say have at it. Jesus Christ, what is the world coming to.

Well, some women do it for the money, because the money is better than quite a lot of service industry jobs and therefore you can make a living working only one or two days a week - useful when you have children. Some do it because they think it will be fun, exciting, daring and taboo-smashing. Some are coerced. And some work in porn because they want to change the industry and make it better - there is a growing ethical/feminist porn industry these days (which suffers much more from police/state intervention than the 'mainstream' stuff: remember the change in the law which banned face-sitting and female ejaculation but didn't ban 'choking during blowjobs'?)
I have worked in and around the porn industry for most of my adult life and been in one or two films (for clarity: they were softcore fetish films in which I spanked other people. I did them because the directors were friends, there was a reasonable chunk of money and it was thoroughly good fun).

Because feminism is about supporting a women's choice to do with her body as she wishes without judgement from others.

IMO it isn't. It is about supporting a woman's choice to do anything she wants without limiting or controlling her because of her sex/gender and also making sure that no one else has control of her body or tells her what to do with it - whether it be through abortion, contraception, sterilization, forced pregnancy or having sex when she doesn't want to or has little choice whether she does or not.

I feel as concerned about men/young men in porn and the current sex industry as I do about women/young women. I am concerned about people who have little control/power/money in our increasingly marginalised society, ending up doing things for money that the middle/upper classes wouldn't dream of encouraging their own children to do - even as a summer college job.

What solid says about the growing ethical porn industry is interesting.

The "ethical" porn industry is tiny, and an oxymoron. You can not make a product that relies on the exploitation of women ethical.
Also kink.com claims to be part of this ethical porn industry. I have heard many stories from women that tell a different story.

There is nothing at all inherently wrong in engaging in sexual acts as a performance, for money. Nor is there anything wrong with watching paid performers engage in sexual acts. Having sex for money is not, in itself, any more exploitative than engaging in any other kind of activity for money. As long as the person doing the work is paid fairly, is willing to engage in the activities and all parties concerned have agreed what those activities will consist of, there's nothing wrong with it at all.

This is why those people making ethical porn should be supported. The more support they are given, the better the chances are of more porn being ethically made and the non-ethical companies being put out of business. Other industries with unethical practices are being made to change, as more people try to support the fair-trade/ethical versions, after all.

I have never watched any porn and been able to believe the women are actually enjoying themselves.

I believe they do it for the performance and the money, because they know it's the only job in the world where women are paid more than men. Because they are realistic about their abilities to earn shed loads of cash from a nice but not model nice body.

SGB can you link to ethical porn? Or share a name?

I liked the manly teeth dentist gyno pornstar image.
You could have the nicest set of teeth he ever come across

SGB - Well we disagree then. Some things should not be for sale. And women's bodies are one of those things.

Cleaty: engaging in sex acts for money is no more 'selling' your body than engaging in any other acts for money. You still get to keep your body. You do the job, get paid, go home. There are other types of employment which are more like selling your actual self than any other kind of sex work: corporations which demand a right of veto over what you do when you are not actually in the workplace, for example.

SGB, I think the difference is that so many porn stars report actual damage to their bodies, as a direct result of the work. In pretty intimate places too. Plus once you've done it, it cannot be undone - it's out there on the internet, and can never be deleted. That's fine, if you're happy with that - but many girls go into this so young - late teens - in 10yrs time they may not want the films/pictures haunting them forever. Sure, they use fake names - but that doesn't stop them being outed irl, in their home towns and so on. It's out there forever.

As a result of this thread, I watched Hot Girls Wanted on Netflix, and what struck me was the length of career of most of the girls - average was about a year - an awful lot were 3-6 months - and they didn't really seem to like the work that much. I think they liked the hedonistic lifestyle that went with it (who doesn't in their late teens) and I just wonder if it ends up being worth it for them, and whether they're making a truly informed choice. I think most probably go into it thinking they'll make megabucks, and then don't. Either because they can't hack the work, ("facial abuse" anyone?), or find the work dwindles out after a few months.

hcdocu.blogspot.com/

Don't know if this link still works but it dispels lots of the myths being espoused on this thread.

Lightbulbon, that is the film I was referring to upthread - only I said Vanessa, instead of Felicity (my mistake). I hate to think of women being abused by porn film-makers as she was by Max Hardcore, and yet the cameras were on him. He clearly didn't think or care about what he was doing - gawd knows what goes on when the cameras aren't rolling. What he subjected her to was abuse - both on film and 'off camera' (although the documentary makers caught it).

I remember seeing a documentary in which Nina Hartley was interviewed. She said that it was her belief that the majority of female porn stars had been sexually abused as children. That's coming from a very experienced and 'sex positive' porn star. I don't think she had any reason to lie.
cleaty it's not up to you to decide what other women do with their own bodies.

lanark2 I think you might be a little bit optimistic about the money that can be earned. Of course there will be a few high earners but that doesn't mean everyone will have those opportunities. As with all forms of entertainment the internet will have had an impact. Plenty of free/amateur porn.

Getting paid to shag until my heart is content. What's not to love. I think I need a career change..
Seriously though. As long as it's what the person wants and they're happy to do it and it works Who's anyone to say it's wrong or imorale

What's not to love is being pressured to go beyond your personal boundaries, on camera, I guess. And the pressure is immense: do this or you won't work in the industry again. And 'this' may be being deep throat until you vomit, or double penetration for hours, until you're treated for anal lesions, or worse. I do wonder what pleasure double penetration has for the woman involved, rather than those choosing to watch a woman being penetrated like that. I would say probably none, except in a vanishingly few cases.

In the vast majority of cases, I would wonder whether the woman (and indeed in many cases, the man) was genuinely feeling any pleasure from the sex being filmed, or from the woman being deep throated until she vomited - and that ('small detail') would be important to me. As either a viewer or performer. Which is why I'm not a great fan of online porn. Sex, yes. Online porn, not so much.

Don't be silly. Everyone knows if you don't like porn you don't like sex.

Yes, that old adage AF. We're just pearl clutching fuddy duddies, aren't we.

I saw a programme about it. Most ended up very damaged (mentally and physically) by the end of their career. The women used to 'service' the cameramen and crew afterwards, when they were already sore down below. It was disgusting and a whole different world. I felt sorry for the women involved. I don't believe that this industry would attract strong women with a healthy self-esteem; more likely to be vulnerable individuals.

Indeedy. And our husbands are furiously rubbing one off to teenage Tracy while we are Mary Whitehousing our way around social media.

Ah, yes, Mary Whitehouse. I am her reincarnated obviously. My poor husband.

On a side note, dh and I watched that drama about her life, with Julie Walters, and DH turned to me and said, bloody hell, she was right, wasn't she? I guess she was, a bit.

DH is partial to tantric sex (and so am I), so hardly prudish about these things. He's just not partial to women being abused on camera.

SGB
I disagree... Regarding sex as a commodity to be bought and sold like any other thing devalues it.

The idea that every woman in porn makes huge money is untrue.
Many women don't make big money, many have horrific experiences (even 'successful' big named ones like the women who partnered the porn guy accused of rape; I think he was called James Deen and one of his accusers Amber Rayne was just found passed away).

Many who leave porn are then haunted by it because once it's out there, people can always come across it, and women who have left often face 'being outed,' embarrassed/humiliated, or blackmailed when they've settled down to a life in suburbia with kids.

There's an interesting woman on twitter called Lily Cade who is a lesbian porn maker and feminist, if you are interested.

Getting paid to shag until my heart is content. What's not to love. I think I need a career change.

Exactly. That's why I'm encouraging my sex-mad teen DD's to go into prostitution or porn.