Lahore bombing - where is Christian god?

[lulucappuccino]

Ok, I know this is a very clichéd question, but 70+ people, mainly children, brutally murdered at a Christian, Easter celebration.

Families gone. Lives shattered. Unbearable pain.

WHY would god allow this?

Aibu to think this sort of thing proves there is no Christian god. Or if there is, "he's" not a good force?

I disagree - and I think your views ARE bigoted and intolerant - pretty much sums up the whole scale dismissal of peoples faith, their right to freedom of belief, and your view that they are all out to oppress you

People have an absolute right to freedom of belief, as far as I'm concerned. If they keep it to themselves, then fab. It's the effects on the rest of us that makes me angry.

I think I will start a thread - Lahore bombing - where is Islamic God?

There's that Christian victimisation right there!
'You don't have a go at the muslims, it's easy to have a go at the Christians'

If there is a "god", he's a malevolent bastard who lacks any sort of empathy or " love" for the people he supposedly created. If there is a god, I don't want to know him. That's my twopenneth anyway!

Mistress Mia used to have a very interesting perspective on Islam; I think she was an apostate, like Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I was always interested in what she had to say.

Shit happens. I don't believe God is some sort of puppeteer protecting us from any kind of harm, and therefore preventing us from exercising moral choice in how we respond. If that makes God malevolent, I'm fine with that.

Why do religious people on these thread throw accusations of goadiness around so easily? Personally, I like to read things that challenge my worldview. Where is that intellectual curiosity, are their ancient faiths so very fragile that they'll wither if a little light is shown on them?

FWIW I am a Christian, I believe because I want to. Some people do not believe because they do not want to. That does not make either of us delusional, simple or any other name that some come up with

This is interesting. I agree with your first sentence. I think a lot of people believe in religion because they want to. Not necessarily a rational/logical decision, they believe because they want to. On the other hand, most atheists have reached a rational/logical conclusion that god doesn't exist. I know I didn't come to that conclusion because I didn't want to believe. My position is based on the evidence to hand, not on what I want to believe.

I wouldn't call religious people delusional or simple, I just wonder how much they've really thought about the evidence. How could they possibly come to the conclusion that god exists based on the evidence to hand?

When I say good ohfuck I mean the people who accept others for who they are not WHAT they are. I think as someone from n Ireland you will know what I mean. What I was trying to explain in a non Hallmark Card way was that I can see points of view from both sides and was highlighting that even with my experience I don't chose to be bigoted toward one view. I'm not looking for a medal here but I do believe it is possible to live and let live.

I'm not religious but the equation for me makes perfect sense

1. God creates "heaven" which is the ultimate place to be and the true reality.
2. The only way to get to said "heaven" is to die
3. God allows death

Seems perfectly logical to me. If god wants people to join him in heaven then why on earth would he prevent death. That would make no sense.

Religions are generally founded with good principles. Love your neighbour, do not murder, do to others as you would have them do to you etc.

That's exactly why they are used as an excuse by people wanting to do wrong.

If it wasn't religion, the people who want to commit these acts would come up with some other "reason" for them.

There is always an assumption that those of no faith are bad.

Not from me Ducky. I was not "bad" when I was atheist. I am not bad now I am a deist. I am simply Dione. I am responsible for my actions, no one else's, just as you are Ducky.

The problem comes when people decide to assume things about us based on nothing more than the fact that we share a single attribute with those who do harm.

Individuals conducting evil acts of murder in the name of religion are just evil murderers
It has nothing to do with God

Yes it is possible without faith, it is also possible with faith.

Religions are generally founded with good principles. Love your neighbour, do not murder, do to others as you would have them do to you etc

Well, let's take the Ten Commandments. Before we get to that kind of stuff, there's five Commandments about making sure God gets his due. That's half of them! How neurotic is Yahweh??!

Individuals conducting evil acts of murder in the name of religion are just evil murderers
It has nothing to do with God

Of course it does! You have to look at their motivations.
Would Islamic State exist without Islam? er, no.

It's very difficult to recruit suicide bombers if you don't fill their heads with ideas of an afterlife.

This had nothing to do with a supreme being but everything to do with human lust for power and control. The religion aspect is useful to them to weaken other humans who argue about belief systems, whilst they plan their next assault. That is why they didn't mind killing countless muslims alongside christians. They just wanted to kill to weaken people to have more power over other people. And get people arguing amongst themselves. Makes us easier to control.

nebulae - "I just wonder how much they've really thought about the evidence. How can they possibly come to the conclusion that God exists based on the evidence to hand?"

1. Yes, I have really thought about it and

2 My 'evidence' is based on how my belief has changed my life for the better.

You may not understand my logic, I am not asking you to or trying to convert you

Yes, it would exist. Just have a different name.

If your religion requires you to evangelise, then you are not practising live and let live, in my opinion.

Exactly. Moaning because you can't wear a cross at work for example, nothing about that in the Bible I believe. It's just staking your claim in a public place. I wouldn't be allowed to wear my Chipper Club badge at work, doesn't mean I'm oppressed.
This is the issue. Believe what you want, but get your tanks off my lawn. Don't tell me about you opposition to abortion, your opposition to civil rights based on some ancient text. If you oppose something, then argue rationally for or against it.