Is having overweight kids child abuse?

[Mummyme1987]

A friend posted on Fb that parents with fat kids are child abusers. Except for kids with medical problems. It started with comments on how it's awful that there's a generous fit section in clothes shops. I'm shocked that people think this. I think the majority of parents don't just feed their kids crap, and some kids are bigger than others, and unless it is a very extreme case it's not child abuse. Thoughts?

Aye, I agree with most of the points you have made on this thread.
I even agree that running is better. Children love to run and they're natural at it. They also don't have to worry about wrecking their joints, which is what can happen as you get older.
I think people are merely pointing out that it would maybe be better to class it as walking a mile to start with, and then gradually introduce the running side of it.

You would get more parents onboard by doing it this way.

What would you suggest for parents who willfully cause their DC to have serious health issues?

I don't know. What would you suggest?

In your smoking example, I'd say smoking in DCs face is wrong, regardless of whether or not they develop illness. Then it becomes something you can legislate around by banning smoking in cars/parks/houses where minors are present etc etc).

But with something like obesity there are degrees. It's okay to give your kid crisps as long as they're not overweight. As soon as they're overweight it's not okay. Once a week 'treat' is okay, twice a week 'treat' is abuse. sweets plus tig in garden is okay, sweets plus sand pit in garden is not. Where do you draw those lines?

Of course no one is arguing that fat kids is a good thing, but calling it abuse doesn't help and nor does laying blame so squarely at parents' feet.

Are you proposing criminalising this abuse? Why/why not?

Yes I am. After all other avenues have been exhausted.

If parents refuse to engage, refuse to help their child, continue to damaged their child's health ...willfully. Yes it should.

Like all neglect should be.

katenka

Most neglect isn't.

DC are likely to be removed where neglect is believed to be happening long before there's enough evidence to prove neglect in law.

So that could only work if you could criminalise specific acts.

Maybe a system like with smoking? We could start by criminalising ignoring HV advice. Or maybe choosing to FF. Giving kids crisps? Or just fat kids?

How would this system work?

Would you remove fat kids from their parents? Would that fix their health?

Diabetes is called "Sugar disease" in Dutch. Not as slang or anything, it is the official name.

wonder if there are other languages where it's the same...?

Shuddering at the thought of criminalising HV advice.

Don't give that sort of power to civil servants ever

Can you imaging people dobbing their neighbours in for seeing a kid with an ice lolly in its own garden?

Gibbous I agree. Those who want to lay the blame squarely with individuals seem reluctant to answer how they would tackle this issue apart from just shouting 'child abuser' at them.

Katenka what would all other avenues that have been exhausted be? How would you categorise which behaviour you criminalise? What about the thin child who is fed crap? What about the child who is fed really healthy food but just lots of it? How fat would a child have to be? Really fat or just a bit fat?

I cannot believe that some people choose to ignore the part that our culture and socio economics play in this (as well as individual responsibility). It stinks of 'us and them'.

My 5yo DD eats tons of sugary stuff a week, absolutely none of it given to her by me or her dad. School is the very worst culprit. The rest is normal kid things; parties, clubs (and occasionally grandparents).

Of course it is my choice (and one I exercise) to not supplement that with additional crap at home. But IMO those activities (including school FFS) normalise crap food as treats (or worse, as meals).

That needs to change long before you start criminalising parents.

And she's a real skinny Minnie because she doesn't eat much real food and doesn't sit down, but my god, it scares me that these eating habits are being set now. I worry about what will happen when age catches up with her and she's not permanently playing chasies.

shebird ive seen multipacks of TWELVE packs of crisps for a pound.

"Crisps arent filling or meant to be and everyday food. You can choose not to buy them. That's why junk isn't cheaper. It's not filling and you need more"

Katenka i do realise this Im the one whos lost 10 stone. Ive completely changed my way of eating and dont need to be lectured thanks.

It proves the point i made earlier upthread though..... that even after we have lost the weight its STILL not good enough.

I was merely making a statement about what ive seen not intending to buy them or making excuses to buy them FFS.

I never said that kids shouldnt run or walk or excersise i said the bullying in ALL cases whether for being overweight/wearing glasses/ not being good at maths should be dealt with AT THE SAME TIME . THEY ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

Some of the biggest gaslighters on this thread who are determined to insist i said things i didnt are the ones pearl clutching and hand wringing about abuse.

AyeAmuk, I wonder why you are bring formula into the equation as I don't think that it has anything to do with the increasing rates of childhood obesity in the UK. You mention France - a country with one of the lowest rates of breast feeding in Europe, however childhood obesity there buck the trend very evident in theUK and is stable.

The key in France for the low rates and stable rates of childhood obesity start in utero. Women are weighted at every OB appointment and a gain of more than 1kg a month is frowned upon. In this country, they got rid of checking weights at appointments long ago. Keeping prenatal maternal weights in check results in lower incidents of gestational diabetes and thus very large newborns.

Additionally, France along with several other Mediterranean countries, retain a food culture where food is celebrated and taking time to share a family meal is still part of the fabric of the culture. This results in less eating on-the-hoof and snacking. Even in schools, dinners are 3 course sit-down affairs with (generally) home cooked balanced meals. Lastly, the French are not as removed as the UK is in terms of food source to table -pass by any butcher and you will see chicken with the heads still on and skinless rabbits hanging.

Not saying that these are the answers, but I do feel that the feed-on-demand culture which begins from infancy and the loss of the family meal and food culture are playing a large role in the increase in childhood obesity.

Maybe some overweight ppl arent so keen on losing weight because they know they are STILL going to be treated like crap after theyve achieved it.

Asked questions like "why did you get like that in the first place"

What fucking attitude do you think i would get if i went over to the sober thread and lectured about how you dont need alcohol and you dont need to buy that bottle of vodka because its on special offer.

Because if ppl who have never been overweight know better than me then surely following this principle teetotal, never once been drunk me should know better than them!

Mominatrix I completely agree with you

That post was just for one specific poster and was very tongue in cheek.

The key in France for the low rates and stable rates of childhood obesity start in utero. Women are weighted at every OB appointment and a gain of more than 1kg a month is frowned upon. In this country, they got rid of checking weights at appointments long ago. Keeping prenatal maternal weights in check results in lower incidents of gestational diabetes and thus very large newborns.

That's interesting. I hadn't realized they no longer regularly check the expectant mother's weight. The probably don't want to risk offending anybody.

I think we need to get rid of this mindset that a large baby is something to be proud of.
You often hear people exclaiming ''That's a good weight!''
That may have been the case years ago when a infant mortality rates were high and heavy babies were seen to have a better chance of surviving.

Got itAye - must have missed the post you were referring to.

I think it is.

obese children 65 % more likely to be bullied Im still NOT saying that they shouldnt be encouraged to excersise just to preempt the tirade

edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/05/03/obesity.bullying/

Most neglect isn't.

Who said it was? No one on this thread has said every case is. People have in fact gone to great lengths to point out that it's not all or even most.

Yes in the most extreme cases where it's causing the child sever health problems, I think they should be removed. It's also emotional abuse. Causing problems the child will likely live with forever.

Katenka what would all other avenues that have been exhausted be? How would you categorise which behaviour you criminalise? What about the thin child who is fed crap? What about the child who is fed really healthy food but just lots of it? How fat would a child have to be? Really fat or just a bit fat?

A thin child fed crap is unlikely to hit anyone's radar. The crap food may not be causing, at that point, physical limitations.

I think it's clear from where I said 'in the most extreme cases' wether I meant a bit fat or really fat.

If your child's weight is causing physical limitations and you aren't doing anything or at least trying. it's not ok. It's not good parenting.

I've just read your link helena and that's compared to normal weight children. So not more likely to be bullied than any other 'different' group. And that the cause might be low self esteem, rather than their size. It also says they are more likely to be bullies than normal weight children.

All of which suggests to me that introducing exercise as a way of life to young dc is an excellent idea, rather than supporting your idea the daily mile will encourage bullying.

I agree with Katenka. In the most severe cases where the parents are continuing to willfully harm their DC, then the DC should be removed.

Prior to that there are many steps that can be taken, just like in other cases of neglect or abuse. Off the top of my head, firstly a doctor or nurse flagging the issue, giving advice and leaflets, social services intervention, parenting classes around healthy food, meal sizes and exercise. Getting the DC signed up and partaking in activities every day (including a daily mile). More monitoring of the DC's health by school nurse or GP. I'm sure there is more that others could think of too.

I said it may encourage bullying and that the bullying should be treated with a zero tolerance approach.

At NO point have i said they shouldnt be encouraged to excersise. REPEAT REPEAT AND REPEAT and REPEAT and REPEAT.

What encourages bullying is teachers turning a blind eye.

Also agree with Lurked, it's far from a reason not to do the daily mile, which is a really, really good thing. Especially for overweight/obese and unfit DC.

Although I take Ismell's point that telling unfit, overweight and sedentary parents that their DC has to "run a mile" may make them balk, I don't think it should be "Walk a Mile", I might concede it could be "Do a mile as fast as you can"!

helena nobody has said bullying shouldn't be dealt with, or that bullying of healthy size kids should be zero tolerance but obese kids are fair game. The turning a blind eye approach isn't specific to obese dc.

If I'm honest I'd say overweight dc are less likely to be in the turn a blind eye group than many others. It's not seen as ok to comment on someone being fat, but often viewed as ok to comment rudely/ irrelevantly on thinness, both on here and in every area of rl.

Same for many other differences, being fat and the self esteem issues that go with it are well known. But other differences, whether that's glasses/ deprivation/ sn/ giftedness/ acne etc aren't in the public eye as much, and for many people are much harder to empathise with than being overweight, so far more likely for dc bullied for those things to be dismissed than an overweight dc.