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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to really not understand these birthday parties [trigger warning - stillbirth and bereavement]

192 replies

abunchofnc · 26/03/2016 20:31

NC for this.

Someone I worked with some years ago had a stillbirth. She left her job but I'm still linked to her FB page. I barely know her but it seemed to me to be one of the most horrific experiences a woman could endure. My repeat miscarriages felt 'trivial' in comparison to her experience.

She has since gone on to have healthy DCs, as have I.

The thing is, every year since then they celebrate Baby A's birthday. (I'm not sure celebrate is the word though).

By this I mean a proper birthday cake, candles, birthday cards. And it's all on Facebook - lots of photos of them (including very young DCs who never knew their brother) gloomily staring at lit candles. Picture after picture. It really looks staged and very very surreal. Loads of 'happy birthday baby a' in the comments which I can't bring myself to add to.

I totally understand never forgetting, always remembering, marking moments etc, but I feel very odd seeing these pics. I feel like a heartless bitch even saying this, but it just feels odd somehow.

I don't even know what it is that I have an issue with: the very public FB posts? The incongruity of miserableness over lit birthday cake candles? I also can't imagine how my own 3 year old could ever process this if she was asked to participate like this other persons DCs do.

I know IABU. Her life, her way. Of course. I would never comment negatively if I saw her again. None of my business. But I can't get it out my head and clearly am not understanding something despite thinking about it a lot. I'm prepared to be flamed for this. Interested to know what others think.

OP posts:
MrsDeVere · 27/03/2016 23:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hygge · 27/03/2016 23:33

I used to be on the SANDS forum OP, and I don't want to say anything negative about a place where I received a lot of help and made some good friends.

But it's a place that runs on high emotion and what you describe is a normal thing for many parents who use the forum.

It's never been my way, I suppose you could say I prefer a more traditional way to grieve and remember, and I found it quite stressful on SANDS because the norm on there often seemed to be everything you described and more.

Which is okay if that's what you want, but sometimes there was a lot of pressure to fit in and do the same, and one person in particular accused me of being cold and not caring as much for my children because I wasn't doing all that. I've seen that accusation thrown at a few people by that same person during my time on that forum, and it does make you feel like you aren't grieving properly and ought to be doing more, and doing it more publicly.

I'm wondering if your friend looks so unhappy in the photo's she posts because it's not really what she wants, but she's caught up in a group of people who do, and she feels it's what's expected of her.

SANDS was a big help to me in my early days, and I wouldn't want to put anybody off using the forum if, god forbid, they lose a child. I've made four lovely friends by using SANDS, who I speak to on a daily basis online, and you can get a lot of help and advice. But ultimately I felt more able to grieve in my own way once I left and didn't see on a daily basis the things other people were doing differently to me.

I will say that I don't understand their way any more than they seemed to understand mine. Where it brings some people comfort, I know it would cause me a lot of pain. But you never forget your lost child or children, mine will be a part of me forever. I'll always be their mother, they are in my life daily, in the way I chose to live it, in the things I do to honour their memory.

I was speaking about it recently and said that one of the reasons I went back to college to get my degree is because I would have wanted them to get theirs, because I want DS to get his.

I would have wanted them to follow their dreams and ambitions, and eventually this degree will allow me to follow mine, and so in a way stand tribute to the dreams and ambitions they never got the chance to follow. And hopefully it's my way to inspire DS to know what his are, and follow them. It's not a party or a cake on Facebook, but it's a daily thing I do because they can't.

What I'm saying is, maybe this is what your friend wants to do, which is fine, but maybe it's just that she hasn't found her own way yet and that's why she looks unhappy.

But whatever her way is, she's doing it because her child will always, always be a big part of her life on a daily basis, and she's probably doing all sorts of things, big and small, to remember them. Not just this birthday party stuff but so much more that you don't see.

And it's hard, and we know people are looking at us and judging us, some people thinking they would never be able to cope with what we have had to cope with, others thinking they would never do what we do.

What matters is that people support us in the way we cope best, in the best way they can. If you feel you can't wish her child happy birthday, that's fine. I usually go with something else as well, such as "thinking of you on X's birthday" or "I hope you have a gentle day" because to most parents having someone use their child's name or being told someone is thinking of you and haven't forgotten your child is the most important thing.

Not saying anything at all is fine too, if you really feel you can't, because at least you're not being dishonest or saying they are doing the wrong thing, you're leaving them be to mark the day as they see fit.

expatinscotland · 27/03/2016 23:34

I sometimes think it might even be the same OP, IYKWIM, MrsD.

We do cake, bucket of chicken (her favourite), cards, balloons, message in a bottle. I put it on FB. My kids have picnics on their sister's grave. If it bothers people on FB, there's block/hide/unfollow, all manner of options.

And yy, I'd hate to have seen some of this shite when it was earlier on.

Sometimes a song is enough to tear another hole in what's left of my soul.

BitchyComment · 27/03/2016 23:50

I know these threads keep coming up but I don't think it a bad thing.

I consider myself a nice considerate person but it's become clearer to me as I read these threads that I dont have the faintest idea of what it's like to be a BP. I honestly thought I was a compassionate person but I too would have found it hard to understand why, for example, a BP would post photos on Facebook of birthday celebrations of their deceased children. Now, thanks to these threads, I think I have a bit more of an insight. That's a good thing isn't it?

I can't be the only well intentioned but uninformed MN'er out there.

BTW - I think the OP phrased her OP carefully and I'm sure she didn't mean to offend or upset anyone.

ExtraHotLatteToGo · 27/03/2016 23:52

impatientwino. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss of DS2 💐 I think that the fear comes from 'things like this' no longer being 'other peoples' reality, but your own xx. Try to sleep.

MrsDV. (I'm an old friend under a name change, I'll pm you my old name). I know it has been 10 years, I just can't believe it has been 10 years. You have done so much good, so so much good in B's name. MN wouldn't be the same without you, not just your posts about B & bereavement & the love & understanding you give other bereaved parents, but all of your posts, including the gym in garden threads 😁 I see pink kitchen things and think of you. So many things. Don't let the bastards grind you down xx

ExtraHotLatteToGo · 28/03/2016 00:12

BitchyComment. I understand what you mean, but in all honesty, it's not up to the bereaved parents on MN to educate people to have more compassion & understanding of their position. Their lives are, surely, hard enough, without constantly having to explain & defend the things they do, or don't do, in grieving for their children. Better understanding is good, but it comes at a very real cost.

ExtraHotLatteToGo · 28/03/2016 00:20

Not to mention the fact that the OP CHOSE to post this in AIBU, without any clue in the title that it was about stillbirth, thus giving people a chance to avoid it if they wanted to. There are several more appropriate places she could have posted, if she had to, and she could have made it clear that it wasn't going to be a thread about trampoline parties or something like that.

sailawaywithme · 28/03/2016 00:20

We have friends who do something similar. They are very open about the son they lost and mention him frequently on FB and in everyday conversation. We lost our daughter in utero at 17 weeks. Some of our friends know, some don't. I think you raise an interesting question about the public nature of grieving, and what is considered "appropriate", if that's the right word. On the anniversary of our daughter's death I did put something on FB but then I went back and deleted it quickly. I'm not sure why. I think it felt like I was unnecessarily making something private, public. Although is anyone death really private? I don't know, just thinking aloud. I understand your thoughts, though, OP. As many others have said, we all feel and grieve differently.

Vixyboo · 28/03/2016 00:22

I have a gorgeous son, he is 21 months old. Last year I was 14 weeks pregnant with our 2nd baby when we were told our baby had anencephaly and would either die before full term or would live at most a few hours. Baby could not live as he/she had a brain stem but no brain. I had a termination, something I never ever thought I would have to ever consider. I could not bear to carry on carrying a baby and potentially watch it die after a few hours of life. DP and I felt very strongly we did not want a funeral nor any fuss. We have a little boy who we have to focus on. We will try again but it has been very hard. I think everyone copes in their own way. What may seem odd to one person is someone else's way of dealing with something they have never been given a manual on how to cope with.

BitchyComment · 28/03/2016 00:38

ExtraHotLatteToGo. You are right about the thread title being insensitive as its not clear what the thread is about and I agree that the OP should not have posted in AIBU.

GarlicShake · 28/03/2016 00:41

Giving myself permission to do an internet psych diagnosis ... I think close & frequent familiarity with death does 'inure' you to an extent. I don't mean harden - more that most of us strive for acceptance of the circle of life, the inevitability, and the knowledge that some circles have a very small radius. If you have been around it for a long time, then you will necessarily acquire this acceptance although your feelings about it will be yours alone.

So perhaps it's a case of one person, whose life has been very full of death, looking at folks working on their acceptance and feeling conflicted about it. It's not nice to know you've experienced a lot more horror than most people around you. If your life has been so, it's unusual to have had the luxury of in-depth counselling to organise your feelings about it. You've just got on with things because you had to. So there will be conflicts between your (resolved and unresolved) emotions and the responses of people trying to integrate a single horror into their lives.

I would suggest that perhaps the children look gloomy because their mum's in tears? It's okay, that.

Impatient, I'm so very sorry for your dreadful loss.

sailawaywithme · 28/03/2016 00:44

Impatient I'm so sorry for your loss. I pray for healing for you and your family. Many blessings to you.

LunaticFringe · 28/03/2016 01:21

Garlic what are you on about with your Lion King circle of life malarky?
Speaking as someone with a psychology qualification, the very issue is that we have lost the societal ability to integrate the loss of a child. All four of my great grandmothers lost at least one child. In 3 of those cases I knew their names as a child. I thought I understood. When I had a dead child I realised I had had no fucking idea whatsoever.
My great grandmothers had their mothers, aunts and friends who knew. Fortunately these days we aren't sharing that emotion with every woman. But conversely we are more alone.
I felt like a freak with a dead child.
The internet has provided that community of women who know. And it has given a voice to people who stand and judge in the street.

zozzij · 28/03/2016 01:54

Someone I worked with some years ago had a stillbirth. She left her job but I'm still linked to her FB page. I barely know her

Unfriend her. I'm sure she'll be too caught up in her inappropriate, vulgar, attention seeking, borderline abusive grief to even notice the disappearance of a self-absorbed concern-troll from her news feed.

WanderingNotLost · 28/03/2016 05:13

I see where you're coming from OP. Of course this woman has every right to grieve and to mark the day, but plastering it over social media and involving her children in something that must be very confusing for them is a bit peculiar.

I have a certain experience here. My Mum's first child, who would have been my elder sister, was stillborn and- just to make it more painful and emotional- my DBro was born exactly a year later, a month premature, after a labour that was traumatising in and of itself. So my brother was the eldest-but-not-eldest child, with the same birthday as the child that died but forever a year behind what she would have been and I sometimes believed I was nothing more than a replacement for the first DD my Mum had lost. I can't imagine how we'd have felt if year after year we had to sing happy birthday and blow out cake candles for a sibling who, for us, was never really real.

Notsogrimupnorth · 28/03/2016 07:18

I'm new to these forums - started last night. Because of this insensitively placed thread, I have had very little sleep. We remember our first child quietly and privately but that gives us absolutely no right whatsoever to judge how anyone else chooses to remember. If this is the sort of thread I should expect to stumble across when expecting to find innocent posts about petty annoyances at the most in AIBU than I don't think I'll bother visiting again. Tired, pissed off and sad now. Not what I was expecting when I logged on last night.

abunchofnc · 28/03/2016 07:53

I apologise for the anger and hurt my post has provoked and I will ask MN if it can be deleted. I've been away from MN for years and previously was active in other areas of the site. I am not totally clear with where or how things should be posted and I can see I screwed up there. I am sorry I did that. My posts came from a reaction along the lines of what rino said ~10.12 last night and what wandering said at 5.13. I certainly did not set out at the beginning with an opinion on right and wrong ways to express grief and nor did I intend at any point to imply criticism of anyone else's experience or choices. I don't hold those views and again, I apologise if I gave the impression I did.

Garlic, I don't think people in Africa experiencing trauma have acquired an acceptance of death in the way you describe.

OP posts:
minmooch · 28/03/2016 08:00

IM GOING TO SHOUT NOW BECAUSE I'M BLOODY FED UP. UNLESS YOU HAVE HAD A LATE MISCARRIAGE/STILLBIRTH OR LOST A LIVING CHILD YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU WOULD ACT. YOU CANT POSSIBLY IMAGINE. YOU THINK YOU CAN BUT YOU CANT. STOP JUDGING. STOP TELLING US WHAT YOU WOULD DO. JUST LET US REMEMBER OUR CHILDREN IN OUR OWN WAYS.

THESE THREADS ARE ALWAYS STARTED BY A NON BEREAVED PARENT. AND THEY ALWAYS END UP HURTING BEREAVED PARENTS WHO TIME AFTER TIME HAVE TO EXPLAIN THEIR ACTIONS.

Ohfuckaducky · 28/03/2016 08:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ohfuckaducky · 28/03/2016 08:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LilyTheSavage · 28/03/2016 08:07

EXACTLY MIN. (Except that Id have said shouted "STOP FUCKING JUDGING. HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY KNOW. YOU THINK YOU CAN KNOW BUT YOU CAN'T".

ElsaAintAsColdAsMe · 28/03/2016 08:10

If your post was all so very innocent then why did you nc before posting?

You knew what you were posting and the reaction you would get.

You know fuck all about this woman's kids and how she explains things to them, you know nothing about their feelings on it, and more than that your 'concern' for them doesn't extend to even mailing your friend and asking how they all are, you're just bothered enough to start a nasty goady post on here telling us all how to grieve, that we are fucking our children up and how everything effects you.

You knew exactly what you were doing hence the nc.

dunkinhobnobs · 28/03/2016 09:21

YANBU to admit you don't understand, however because you are in this lucky position please recognise just how U you are being to judge how any of us who have lost our precious babies manage to cope with that loss and carry on living our lives.

dunkinhobnobs · 28/03/2016 09:23

I would also like to know how remembering anyone who you have lost is damaging to other children in the family. My rainbow baby will always know she has 3 big brothers not just the 2 she lives with. How is that damaging? Is it damaging that she will also know about all the Grandparents she never got to meet either?

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 28/03/2016 09:46

Yes yet another cowardly namechanger who will get th thread deleted now they have had their arse handed to them.
OP read the post directly above your most recent and have the decency to respond properly.