To cringe at the phrase "England isn't England anymore"

[Sounddofsilence]

Said by a friend.

Another one sounded off about Easter Eggs now being called Chocolate Eggs so not to offend people because it was on the news!

Argh!

Yabvu, England has changed, sometimes for the worse, I suppose like the rest of the world. It is not how it used to be in days of yor, and that is what people miss. You knew your neighbours, goods made in the UK, not in China, things lasted. You knew who your community bobby was, and life was probably a lot simpler and less stressful. Kids played outside more, and there was more community.

I amiss fairly sure people in Birmingham, Guildford, Warrington, London, Belfast and many more would disagree with you on your mainly not civilians point.

How many British nationals killed in 2015 by terror attacks? You can be scared that's fine. But the comparison was made on religious terrorism and it's inaccurate as More Britain were killed year on year than have been killed by current "religious terrorists". We are far more aware of international events now because of the net, rolling newa etc. It's not accurate to day that religious terrorism in this countryear's has got worse.

Also how are we not directly involved in the actions that are causing terrorist action? Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria? Involved in them all. Dead civilians in all

I live London

I worked in central London while the IRA campaign was still going on

I don't think most Londoners felt more fearful of the IRA than they did after the 7/7 bombing as we knew we were not their target, different for those in the forces, involved in politics or living in Northern Ireland

Muslims terrorists we are all their targets the more the better men women and children they even don't care if some of their Muslim brothwra/sisters are killed too

You think ISIS terrorist attacks is about our involvement in Syria ?

I think Isis is a direct result of our involvement in iraq. I lived in London during the ira era too, and people I knew worried about bombs...

I didn't say people didn't worry about the IRA but I think people are more fearful of Muslim terrorists as we were not usually the targets

We certainly have not helped bring peace in the ME but the issues are far more complex than just our involvement. ISIS wantes to destroy Iran that was their original intention to kill all Shia Muslims and now they seem to just kill and cause destruction wherever they can because they can

We worried about bombs where I lived as even though miles away from any city Manchester as where we went for anything special.
I was trying on a bridesmaid dress in Lewis's during a bomb scare, was only about 13 iirc and bloody scared to death.
I wasn't all that far from Warrington either and the shock brought it closer to home.

I think living through this time has made me more aware that it can happen on your doorstep, or close to home and that nobody is safe.
I am very vigilant whilst out in town centres and still jump if I hear anything loud, which may sound strange to those having never experiencing bombs or even scares before.

Just for clarity on this IRA subject.

They murdered 115 people in England (as per the thread title) during a 25 year campaign (aimed predominantly at police/political and military targets) while Muslim extremists killed 53 people in one attack on civilians London in 2005.

Trying to minimise the threat of Islamic terrorism because they haven't (yet) murdered as many innocents is disingenuous.

After France and Belgium I think people have every right to be fearful when going to and event with a large crowd or using public transport.

The IRA were not religious terrorists. I'm really sick of people comparing them to ISIS. They are nothing alike. Really.

They certainly were religious terrorists in Northern Ireland.

What who were willing to kill themselves along with whoever just happened to be around ?

Oh so they were committing atrocities in the name of Catholicism? No, they weren't. They were a political group.

Also, Islamist terrorists killed more people in a couple of hours on 9/11 than both sides killed over decades in the Northern Ireland conflict. More were murdered in Paris on one evening than in England over a 25 year period. They are not comparable.

I guess if facts don't fit in with what you want to hear then just call it bullshit eh?

No, if facts don't fit in with known facts I call bullshit. MyBeloved, are you seriously saying that virtually every child in the school you taught at speaking those 47 languages insists on covering their faces in school? Where was this school?

Kids played outside more, and there was more community.

Ah, those happy days when kids played outside and that nice Miss Hindley and Mr Brady were happy to offer them rides in their van to see the Moors ...

And Mr Saville helped all those children out of the goodness of his heart

Augusta now you have others. I was just offering suggestions, for the large majority, we were fine.

And we had an infant mortality rate of.29.2 per 1000 in 1950. Fab times

"England isn't England" doesn't mean the same thing as " times have changed" though.

They certainly were religious terrorists in Northern Ireland.

No, Lurked, they weren't. They were sectarian. Big difference.

So my NI family were wrong to be scared of violence depending on what faith you had? Thanks for the education, I'll tell them.

You could say that the current terrorist threat really has nothing to do with religion too, many Muslims would agree.

You could say that the current terrorist threat really has nothing to do with religion too, many Muslims would agree.

Absolutely. It's just an excuse.

Can I just point out how much my English Muslim DC enjoyed their Easter Eggs.

Very pleased for them too Chaz..

My humanist raised ones did too.

So my NI family were wrong to be scared of violence depending on what faith you had?

Lurked, you are conflating religion with sectarianism, it would seem deliberately.

I would add that many were affected by the troubles more than you merely having "an NI family", so the victim one-upmanship doesn't work.

Then you claim ... the current terrorist threat really has nothing to do with religion too, many Muslims would agree.

Which is it Lurked? Is the new threat we face religious or not? You seem to argue both ways, depending on which you believe makes you sound more intelligent at that moment.

I don't think you really know what you think, certainly not with any clarity.

There is no doubt in my mind that for some Islamic terrorists, most likely the leadership, the political aims are greater than the religious motivations or beliefs, but to assume this is the case for the rest is naive at best. Islamic terrorism is rather diverse.

Further, I know many Muslims would agree with Islamic terrorism not being religious, but that would be to ignore the critical point that terrorism has nothing to do with their mainstream, peaceful interpretation of Islam. The non-peaceful interpretation of religious texts is viewed by its supporters as just as religious, if not more so.

It's such a sad subject, I am bowing out now, as I see no point in trying to correct someone who just trots out trite cliches with so little care.