To wonder if people look down on single women?

[honeynotcherry]

I don't mean Mumsnet - don't mean lots of 'well I don't!' but in general is is the case?

I think I've been abandoned as a lost cause but in the circles i know not getting married or staying single is definitely seen for women as being something to be pitied.

Is this a correct view, do you think?

I have been single (have a DS) for 8 years and have never experienced 'being looked down on'.

I am more than happy being single. I am in complete control, make the rules, earn and spend my own money the way I want to. No arguments over housework or DIY, no having to ask if my dH is being unreasonable.. No emotional, financial or physical abuse.

If anything, my married friends probably envy me - a few have said this when they have been going through difficult times with their DH.

I have only ever seen this on MN, never in real life, but then maybe I don't mix with some of the crazy jealous, insecure type of women who venture onto MN. I have lots of friends of both sexes and it's never been an issue. The wives or girlfriends know that I am no threat to them, just because I am friends with their husbands because they know that I am very Happy being single.

I've been single six years and haven't felt myself looked down on but I suspect a couple of friends don't envy me. I feel stupid to admit it now but when I was unhappily married I distinctly recall thinking thank goodness that's not me about a good friend doing internet dating

My XH sent me a text a while ago and said he hoped I found happiness one day ( he is remarried) clearly assuming since I'm still single I haven't found happiness. The truth of the matter is I've been happier single than I ever was in relationships yes occasionally I feel a bit isolated or get a moment of the grass is greener but then I remember what it's actually like.

coming "I feel stupid to admit it now but when I was unhappily married I distinctly recall thinking thank goodness that's not me about a good friend doing internet dating "

I'm single and I look at daters and think "thank goodness that's not me" - but I'm guessing you mean that you thought if you weren't married, the default position would HAVE to be that you are looking?

I actually don't understand how we've ended up in a place where people dread being alone so much. I wonder also are some of them telling the truth or just ticking boxes? And how much of this is due to current popular culture?

A single friend of my dad's - in her 60s - was telling him she thinks it's harder to be single and childfree now in terms of what people think - she reckons in her day, it was seen in more of a "good to see a woman exercising choice".

society as a pp said is organised around families and couples (adverts and holiday possibilities are a glaring example)
So being single is not well catered for within the general population. While we are not consciously looked down upon - we are ignored and sidelined. (have to add - particularly if we are older - said she who is now 'old lady with a dog' who walks by herself )

Mollie "So being single is not well catered for within the general population."

I'd be interested to hear how you'd like to be catered for. My thing is council tax. I will never understand why it's charged on property and not per person. Surely if there were 3 of us in my flat, we'd need to use all the local services more and therefore contribute more?

Yes lorelei that's what I meant - badly worded by me. It's funny though at no point have I wanted to look for someone. The first few months were spent recovering from my marriage ending along side getting myself to a place where I was confident I would never tolerate mistreatment again and then by the time I got there I realised how much nicer single life is . If you had told me during the weeks of my marriage actually ending that I would be single thereafter I would probably have been horrified.

Totally agree, Gabilan. And in my sister's case, she was with some very dysfunctional relationships for too long simply because she thought it was better than being single. It's a shame. My hope is that she's still not feeling that way now.

I haven't been single in a long time, but I've had a few not so great relationships, and definitely knew being single was better than being in those relationships. I appreciated the singledom in between, and though I'm happy with DH, I hope if it ever anything bad came to be, I'd have that same insight.

lorelei (one of my favourite names BTW)
yes - there is council tax

• single supplements on holidays/cruises/etc if you are on your own (and this is for a box room next to the lift )
• portion sizes in food you buy (exception by m&s but they charge more for the handy single portions )
• apparently insurance is more expensive if you are a singleton

single households pay the same for TV licence, insurance, water rates it is the general assumption of coupledom - whether you are renting a cottage, booking a holiday I am sure there are many more to balance the general view that singles are well catered for. not complaining too much though - my life, my choice (and I can be known as the crazy dog lady )

Mollie, thank you It's a name I wish I had!

Single supplements - bit confused about something. Normally I find places charge per room. So is the single supplement meaning the hotel finds a way to compensate for a loss made on whatever price they'd have charged 2 people for a double room? I vaguely recall paying one but it cancelled out at less than 2 people sharing a double. I've never been given a crappy box room but I have been warned about it.

Portion sizes - can't say I've noticed but tend to buy loose veg etc. If a posh ready meal is set up for 2 I'd just keep half of it for the next day.

Not sure what types of insurance are more expensive if you are single? I'm guessing travel?

I don't mind paying the same for TV licence, home insurance or water - I could get a meter fitted if I felt strongly on water. TV is a weird one, what happens if you live with someone and they don't watch it? Would you charge it per number of residents?

Home insurance is done on the details of your home, surely - not according to how many people live in it? I might have that wrong as I have never lived with anyone but I can imagine if they factor in the number of residents, it would be more expensive rather than less because there'd be a higher risk of accidents, for example?

The problem is that society assumes two people - I imagine it's the same for families with more than two children.

this from money supermarket

When being single costs you more…

Living alone means you don’t have anyone to split household bills with. According to LV=, singletons spend £1,826 a year more on housing and utilities than if they were living as part of a couple, even with the single person’s Council Tax discount given factored in.

The research found that single households pay £1,392 more on mortgage and rent than someone living in a couple, £294 more on utilities and £140 more on household goods and services.

Higher hotel costs
If you’re a solo traveller, you won’t be able to share the cost of a hotel room. And you could even be charged a ‘single supplement’, which can be anything from 10% up to 100% of the standard accommodation rate.

More expensive car insurance premiums
Single men and women typically pay more for their car insurance than couples who are insured together on the same policy. That’s because if you’ve ‘settled down’ with someone, you’re considered a lower risk by insurers than if you’re a singleton. Married couples, on the other hand, are likely to benefit from the lowest premiums because statistically they have fewer accidents and make fewer claims than their single counterparts.

Pay more tax
You could end up paying more tax if you’re single than in a relationship. Every one of us has a personal allowance, which is the amount you can earn before you have to pay income tax. This tax year the personal allowance is £10,000. If you are married but only one of you is working, you can transfer savings accounts to the person who doesn’t work, so that you pay less tax overall as a couple, but you can’t do this if you’re on your own

As a singleton, you’ll also miss out on the marriage tax allowance, which is due to be introduced next April. From this date, married couples can transfer £1,000 of their personal tax allowance to their spouse or civil partner, provided one is earning less than the personal allowance.

the news about more expensive insurance was a shock to me

If a posh ready meal is set up for 2 I'd just keep half of it for the next day

I find the portions small so I just eat the whole thing.

I do find it expensive living on my own. However, it's also worth every bloody penny.

well the household thing is a mystery - why would you spend more on utilities as a singleton? I mean, the implication I get from that is that I am using more electricity - how can that be? And how or why would I use more "household goods and services" - whatever they are?

of course the mortgage is yours alone but that's a joy and I don't think you could fit 2 people in here anyway.

car insurance - ah, didn't know that. But I don't mind insurance companies assessing levels of risk and car insurance is about the driver, not the car.

the tax break thing is ridiculous, yes, but many benefits to "marriage" are set up that way. I must admit I didn't think of this thread in terms of "single or married" - just "single or coupled up". That's because it's always been utterly ingrained in me that I wouldn't mix my finances with someone else's so I have not entertained the thought of marriage. This thread has shown I've practically forgotten marriage exists

I particularly dislike the Capital Gains thing.

Really curious about the hotel thing - I am thinking everyone would book for 2 and then just plead that the person accompanying them was ill?

I'm living in a 2 bed cottage. I've also lived in 1 bed flats that are big enough for 2 people. Costs the same to heat whether there's 1 or 2 of you in it, but of course you can split it if there are 2 of you. Cooking likewise - it's the same if you turn the oven on for one or two people.

Water is a bit less, though not half. Actually the heating is less because I can keep the place cold without someone whinging, but the principle stands.

Gabilan, I think I've misunderstood the phrasing but then it's shit phrasing. It makes it sound like singletons are using more resources - we aren't, we're just paying for it on our own.

Of course bills are less when they're split!

See this line "The research found that single households pay £1,392 more on mortgage and rent than someone living in a couple, £294 more on utilities and £140 more on household goods and services"

to me that means, the single person is using more utilities. I dunno, maybe it's me, I'm fussy about phrasing. But of course if it's based on "what does 1 person living at 7 Connaught Avenue pay vs what 2 people living there would pay" - it's kind of meaningless.

Maybe it's me - I get irritated by articles when I feel they are pretending to share actual information but really they're sharing something from the "no shit Sherlock" file.

anyway back to the thread....

Yes, being single being more expensive is mostly stuff in the "no shit Sherlock" file, it's true. :o

But lots of things that should be in that file are things that people just don't think about much or remember easily.

Nobody said this was surprising news :)

What's less obvious but really shit is that being poor is noticeably more expensive than being well off. Having gas and electric on a meter is more expensive than paying by direct debit. If you can't buy a TV or sofa but get one from Brighthouse or similar you end up paying more. Paying for your TV license monthly rather than upfront costs more. You can only take advantage of multipacks of food or "3 for 2" if you can afford 2 - if you can only afford 1 right now then it's more expensive.

Really curious about the hotel thing - I am thinking everyone would book for 2 and then just plead that the person accompanying them was ill?

I have turned up to more than one hotel where I've booked a room, to be asked where my companion is. I booked a room. I said it was one adult. I never said two people were occupying it. I've usually booked a room because of the facilities, e.g. en-suite, free wifi, hotel pool. And yet they are still confused when the only person they've ever heard of in reference to this booking turns up on her own.

I imagine that the "cheaper to book for 2" thing only applies when doing special deals, not in the normal course of things.

It usually wouldn't cost me any more to book a room for two people than it would for one, so in that sense, I am paying double. Or couples pay half each for the same thing.

From what I've seen, single supplements tend to be charged on the sort of holiday which is an all-inclusive package; I've never actually booked that sort of holiday, but I do flick through the travel pages and sometimes use them as inspiration for doing my own thing.

I'm single always have been really other than a couple of short relationships, I have a 10yo dd. Most of the time I am perfectly happy being single, I love being in control and not having to worry about what someone else wants.

However there are times when it would be so nice to have the support of a partner, last week my dd was seriously ill and in hospital for several days. Not having a partner to support me was so hard, just practical help apart from anything else but also someone to share the emotional stress and worry with.

I get a lot of 'you're so strong' from my married friends I don't think they look down on me but I do think they pity me at times.

For the record i dont pity anyone as long as theyre doing what suits them. However to flip it i think some people can be passive aggressive re marriage. For example my cousin told me i was too young to marry at 28 and asked if j felt like a grown up because i got married. Mind you she also posts memes on fb about how strong women are single and dont need a man or how people can f off with their Valentines day flowers. Maybe she has her own set of issues

Well no-one really needs a man. I do want one occasionally though. I don't see this as detracting from my strength as it's not as if I give up my sense of self in order to find one.

She's got a point about Valentine's Day. But as for your age when you got married Faye that's entirely your business. In times gone by, 28 would have been considered old, at least for a woman.

I think what pisses me off is that to be coupled up, or even married is to be seen as "grown up." And to be single means that you're not emotionally mature, ready for a parter etc etc.

Whereas, a lot of people are desperate to get married because they can't cope with life on their own.