To request no children at my Mum's funeral?

[missmalteaser]

I know I am deep in grief and anger stages right now so maybe not thinking straight.

I know that my mum would not have wanted her two Great grandchildren to be upset (they are 3 and 6)/attend her funeral, so I politely asked the mum of the children (nephew's partner) if she could veto the service and bring them straight to the wake as these are the wishes of my Dad and I truly believe the wishes of my late mum. She is still insisting on bringing them and has also caused a rift between us and nephew at a time when we should be pulling together. Her excuse is lack of childcare, although her mum and dad are heavily involved with the children.

As an aside, selfishly I don't want toddlers interrupting my final goodbye to my Mum.

Please help.

I am so sorry for your loss.

I was taken to my first funeral (Catholic mass) when I was six by my school. A classmate's mother died and our class and that of her elder sister, who was eight, were taken to the funeral to show support to them. It didn't distress us. We wanted to be there for our friend even though we weren't close to the family.

I took my daughter to a close family friend's funeral when she was four. I explained what would happen before we went in and told her she would have to be quiet and respectful. I also bribed/rewarded her just to be on the safe side, although I wouldn't consider doing that for anyone of six or over as they really should know how to behave. (As these children are three and six though they would have to be treated in the same way on this occasion.)

I also took my daughter to my sister's funeral when she was nine months old and she was a great comfort to our devastated family, especially my mother, on the day. She didn't sit with us in the front pews but with a trusted friend towards the back of the church and they promised to take her straight out if she started crying - which she didn't.

Ultimately surely it is up to the OP's father? As the OP says, everyone should be pulling together at this sad time. It also depends on the children. Are they well-behaved? Do they know how to behave in church? If they do they should be fine. If they don't and are likely to make a noise or be allowed to run around they definitely shouldn't be there.

However it isn't wrong to disagree with the beliefs of the chief mourner if those beliefs are upsetting or harmful to other people who are also in mourning

It isn't wrong to disagree with the chief mourners beliefs, but it is wrong if you don't respect their wishes. If you don't respect their wishes you fucked up.

If the nephew and his wife cared that much about the granny and grandad, they would respect their wishes. They would do everything in their power to make this time as easy for the husband and daughter and not make it all about what they want. They are completely disregarding their wishes, which is not the actions of people who care about those nearest to the deceased. Please stop with the crap about they may be closer to the deceased than the husband . That is so insulting. He is trying to ensure his wife's wishes are carried out, whereas the nephew and his wife are doing the opposite.

Children need to learn about funerals.

Not disagreeing. But sometimes things are not about the children.

They are not the most important people in this scenario. The OP's father is the most important person (imo) without diminishing the feelings of the rest of the family.

I think the children's mother is making it all about her, and her feelings and wishes and she is being very rude and very thoughtless.

The children will sadly have many 'learning experiences' in their lives and it won't scar them (especially the three year-old) to miss this one.

And those that said if they start disturbing the proceedings, they can be taken out; well, it's a bit late then. The disturbance has occurred.

All the personal experiences and wishes of everyone on this thread won't matter a jot to the OP's father. He's just lost his wife and his wishes override everyone else's.

I was excluded from my grandmothers funeral when I was a child as it was thought to be for the best. I didn't get closure and it took a very long time to process the loss. Children need to say goodbye too, in whatever way they can. They may not understand but even tiny children can process things in meaningful ways for them. I know you are hurting, and I understand you are trying to protect everyone. It's the circle of life, the older generation will be comforted by having little ones present. Try and accommodate them even if you are hurting xx

the older generation will be comforted by having little ones present.

Yes. At the wake.

OP, I am so sorry for your loss

I do think yabu. I don't think anyone has the right to exclude anyone from a funeral. Everyone who loved her should be allowed at the funeral and should not be told they aren't welcome.

They aren't nosy neighbours, they are close relatives and I don't believe anyone should try to exclude them.

When my children's father died his widow was making all kind of requests about who could and who couldn't attend the funeral. She was grieving, she was trying to do what she thought he would have wanted. It was all down to raw grief and anger and trying to focus on something other than the deep loss. In the end, everyone who wanted to go went, it just didn't matter in the end, don't think she really noticed who was there and who wasn't. Ex step FIL wasn't happy when she said she wanted me to go in the funeral car with her and the children, I felt pulled by everyone's wishes, but on the day no one cared, none of it mattered, all that mattered was saying goodbye and coming together.

I would be devastated if my children couldn't go to a close relatives funeral, it's my job to know if they can handle it or not. Being upset is a part of life and not something they need protecting from unless the parents think it isn't appropriate.

That said, would I let my children attend a funeral when I was asked not to bring them? Probably not, I would talk it through but ultimately I wouldn't want to cause more upset at such an awful time, but I would be very hurt.

Again, I'm sorry for your loss OP

Most charities that deal with children and bereavement encourage families to allow children to attend funerals because it can affect them for a long time if they don't (they advise they never see children who regret attending a funeral, only ones who regret not attending) and because it is as important to their ability to start to grieve as it is for adults.

it isn't wrong to gently challenge the belief that it isn't good for children or others for them to be present

This exactly.

My kids when to my dads funeral aged 5 & 6 and honestly it went very well. It certainly helped them - my BFF took activities for them and hemmed them into the aisle (pillar the other side) while I did my reading.

They enjoyed throwing dirt into the grave and saying goodbye. It was a fitting tribute. They didn't disturb anyone else, I was looking after them and organised for my BFF to help at church. It doesn't need to have any impact on you at all if they are not your kids.

At the wake all the grandkids of a similar age had a good time catching up.

it isn't wrong to gently challenge the belief that it isn't good for children or others for them to be present

And then accept that, in spite of all that, the main people concerned don't want them there.

I don't think that the children are the most important people in this particular scenario.

I agree with PovertyPain and Tiggytape

The notion of funeral as "teaching moment" is abhorrent. And frankly in my family we don't want kids running around at the wakes either.

Fortunately babysitters aren't scarce and no one in my circle has that "we won't leave our kids with anyone but DM till they are 15" mindset.

I am on OPs side in all this - the wishes of the immediate family should be paramount at a funeral. Yes, children need to learn about death, but the world does not revolve around children and teachable moments for them. There are other ways to teach them - read a suitable book, talk about it, or go to the wake. But people should not ride roughshod over the feelings of the immediate family.

Maybe it is me - but who are 'chief mourners'???? At a funeral, everyone has lost the deceased, everyone is mourning them.

"If you're old enough to love, you're old enough to grieve" I agree, tiggytape.

Of course don't bring kids for a learning opportunity, but equally don't write them off and exclude them for fear of tantrums and crying. They are mourners, too.

And grandchildren and great grandchildren are immediate family.

I was excluded from my grandmothers funeral when I was a child as it was thought to be for the best. I didn't get closure and it took a very long time to process the loss.

So was I, but it would have been utterly wrong to go against my grandfather's wishes. Funerals aren't the 'be and end all' when it comes to closure.... Especially for a child who would need to be pretty mature to understand th concept of closure anyway... Certainly something that would be alien to a 3 yo, and almost certainly a 6 yo too. Many people will take time to come to terms with loss irrespective of attendance at a funeral. I would have thought that parents should be encouraged to manage loss of a relative in an age-appropriate way with the child that reflects the closeness of the relationship and th child, seeking closure through that... For very young children, a funeral is not at all age appropriate.

If you're old enough to love, you're old enough to grieve". Of course, but it doesn't follow that a funeral service is a suitable outlet for or a way of best supporting a young child's grief. I think there's an exception where the children are the closest individuals to the deceased (ie mother, father or sibling) as in that case, the funeral should to a large extent be focussed on their needs.

Who qualifies as "immediate family". I always thought I was immediate family to my grandparents, I feel my grandchildren are immediate family. If someone tried to tell me that my grandchildren aren't immediate family I wouldn't believe it. To me my immediate family are my husband, my children, my grandchildren and my siblings. My nieces and nephews I'm not sure but I think I would include them but would understand if other people didn't.

Maybe it is me - but who are 'chief mourners'???? At a funeral, everyone has lost the deceased, everyone is mourning them.

Oh come on... I attended a funeral service last year - not a close friend but nonetheless close enough to want to attend the funeral. I was sad and felt loss, but my feelings paled into insignificance with her widower (married 50+ years). To say my loss compared even closely with his is both insulting and deeply stupid. He was the chief mourner... That was clear, and anyone who thought their feelings trumped his wishes in terms of how th funeral was conducted and who should attend would have been an entitled, selfish arse!

When I was young I was excluded from my grandmother's funeral for similar reasons. I still find it upsetting to remember. I felt as if I was being told grandma never loved me and I didn't matter. Irrational, I know, but I was only little. It stuck with me for a long time. I think children can feel these things, and quite strongly.

I was excluded from my grandfather's funeral (one of the Welsh funerals described upthread). For years I resented that, but when as a young adult I attended my grandmother's funeral I understood. I think my resentment was misplaced, basically.

When my mother died, I knew it would be wrong for ds (then 6) to attend. Maybe it would have been ok for other children, but not for mine at the stage he was. He was very close to his grandma btw - saw her most days for a few hours at least. He didn't need to see his grandma's coffin rolling off through the curtains to gain 'closure'. Neither did I tbh. Two weeks after her death there wasn't any healing to be had.

I really resent the accusation that it is somehow repressed to feel this way. It is really quite insulting.

Who qualifies as "immediate family"

People who you live with and spend each (or most) days in and around.... Whereas you may be close to a grandmother, if they live 200 miles away and you only see them a couple of times each year, it's not 'immediate' compared to a mother who you spend every day with.

Flashbangandgone, but many of us on here, particularly Irish people or people (like me) who are born into an Irish family but not in Ireland have found funerals entirely appropriate for young children. My younger sibling was 7 when my father died, his class attended the funeral and they sang one of the hymns (they obviously sang the other hymns with the congregation) most of them had probably never spoken to my father. They behaved beautifully, they sang beautifully and when they sang there wasn't a dry eye in the church. It was very touching.

The OP says she knows her mother wouldn't have wanted the children at the funeral, I wonder if her mother actually said that or if it is something the OP believes. It isn't clear to me which is the case.

Apparently some of my grandchildren are immediate family and some aren't because of where their parents choose to live. How odd.

Flashbangandgone, does that mean my son, who lives 200 miles away, is no longer my immediate family but his brother who lives round the corner and comes here to see me several times a week is immediate family?

Is there a certain distance that qualifies? My daughter is moving 80 miles away soon, will she still be immediate family?