To request no children at my Mum's funeral?

[missmalteaser]

I know I am deep in grief and anger stages right now so maybe not thinking straight.

I know that my mum would not have wanted her two Great grandchildren to be upset (they are 3 and 6)/attend her funeral, so I politely asked the mum of the children (nephew's partner) if she could veto the service and bring them straight to the wake as these are the wishes of my Dad and I truly believe the wishes of my late mum. She is still insisting on bringing them and has also caused a rift between us and nephew at a time when we should be pulling together. Her excuse is lack of childcare, although her mum and dad are heavily involved with the children.

As an aside, selfishly I don't want toddlers interrupting my final goodbye to my Mum.

Please help.

The funeral was for close family and friends are there to support those who are immediate family.

I want to ask a question, but I'm afraid of this coming across sounding rude, because I'm not sure how to word this properly. So, please be aware that this is a genuine question. What I'm wondering is, is that a commonly held view in England as to how funerals should be? It's just that in Ireland, if a funeral were held and only immediate family and close friends attended, everyone would feel really sorry for the person that no one cared enough about them to attend their funeral. And you would be judged harshly for not attending the funeral of a neighbour.

And when I say 'is that a commonly held view' I don't mean 'your view is wrong'.

I just mean is that culturally how funerals are meant to be?

I think YANBU. I don't think children should attend funerals and my children have never attended their grandparents as I never did my grandparents. My mum was of the opinion that you show your respects in a person's lifetime and a funeral was just a necessity for adults and I tend to agree.

Treaclesoda it is very different here to Ireland. My husband's family are Irish and they attend all neighbours funerals - and since they live in a country area, this could be a 5 mile radius plus! Here, you wouldn't dream of attending a funeral unless you were directly affected by the loss.

I'm sorry for your loss

But I do think that trying to exclude your nephew from the funeral just because he has children must be very hurtful and distressing for him . Like others , I have never heard of anyone being banned from a Funeral, normally they are open to everyone , or they say specifically that they are private

It implies that your nephew has done something really awful, when in fact all he has done is have children . No wonder he is very offended.

I know that you are trying to pretend that you have not banned him, but just his wife and kids, but I think that's equally unkind, it's really the same thing. I don't think that being bereaved gives you a right to be unkind or rude to a relative who has done nothing wrong .

I understand that you and your father are both very shocked and upset , but I really think you have done the Wrong thing in this case. You should say to your nephew that he is of course very welcome to pay his respects to his aunt and that you are sorry if you have given a different impression.

Treacle soda - what you say is the same as in Scotland . I've never heard anyone say that they would only go if " directly affected" . People often go to a funeral of someone they have never met eg a colleagues mother , a neighbours daughter . They go to support the bereaved and to represent the community

thisagain thanks for answering. How do other people pay their respect and let the family know that they have heard about the death and they want to acknowledge it? Or is it just not mentioned?

"trying to exclude your nephew from the funeral just because he has children must be very hurtful and distressing for him."

That's sadly how it comes across to me.

The nephew does have childcare, his partner could miss the service and look after the children. My grandmother when ds was a baby. My parents requested that ds didn't attend even though he was a babe in arms and I was breastfeeding. My husband took the day off work and babysat while I attended the service. They didn't want the risk of Ds waking up and crying.

Ds was welcome at the wake. We followed the wishes of my father and supported him.

I only know of my experience but mostly it has been done by word of mouth in my family so any one less involved with the family will be less likely to know. I guess the answer is, it is just never mentioned. When my mum died, a lot of people came from my dad's work place as a sign of respect. They did know my mum, but not closely. That's as far as it went in our family.

I must admit though, I personally made the decision not to take my children to funerals and would never have banned children from my mum's funeral. That really is a decision for the parents to make.

OP, I think you're hurting and lashing out at a convienent target, the partner of your nephew. This is perfectly understandable, but it is now hurting you, and for that I think you need to let it go. For yourself, I'd leave things be; you've already indicated they could bring them via text, and just forget about the whole thing. The kids will show up or not.

It really seems like there must be some further history there, and it would explain your nephew's explosion, too, but if there isn't, there will be now. You say the reason you're so upset with the wife is that she made a statement to her husband that she was disgusted at some behaviour and she has not responded to texts. I'm sorry, but a statement presumably in private and in confidence to her partner (and how does everyone know about this anyway? and it can't be about a single text - surely it is more about the initial argument and the fact of the continuation of the topic, not whatever form that took?) and non-action do not seem unforgiveable actions. Your OP indicated the wife was causing a rift and did not even mention that the nephew had had a big blow up and argument! The rift was caused by the nephew's initial reaction, and the switch to blaming the wife in the whole for thing is just bizarre, although in keeping in stuff I've been reading lately about emotional labour and how females are the 'holders' of such things and thus expected to handle them and get the blame if something goes wrong. In this case, even if the male partner makes a scene and big argument, and the female partner does nothing, she is now getting the blame for a family rift over precisely doing nothing. She has not chosen to sulk and stir things up, someone chose to bring her into it, and it seems by her non-response she is attempting to stay out of it.

But I think such considerations are beyond you now OP. You're spending a lot of emotional effort trying to think reasons into silence, but you really can't know what the personal circumstances of her parents are on that day, whether she could or could not get childcare, whether she is simply trying to stay out of the argument or is spitefully ignoring texts, or anything really. It's taking up too much of yourspace and you've now taken enough steps you can tell yourself you've had your say, and try not to speculate about what is going on in someone else's head.

Children need to learn about funerals. When we were organising my FIL's, ds1 said 'one day I'll have to do this for you' - sad but probably true. Your family's way of doing funerals is part of their heritage and they will be even more lost when that sad day comes if they have never witnessed this before, and also have been excluded from the deep human need to say goodbye in a public formal way. I am very sorry for your loss, and at times like this some family rows seem almost inevitable, but let them come.

Have the posters who are still accusing the op of being unreasonable actually read the full thread - in particular the op's post yesterday afternoon?

There have been a couple of unnecessarily nasty things said here to a woman who is hurting probably more than she has ever done in her entire life. One in particular I would have reported, but I think sometimes it's best to leave cruel posts to stand, so we can all see just how unpleasant the individual responsible can be.

I'm absolutely disgusted at the number of people who feel that their 'right' to teach their children about death and grieving over rides the wishes of the immediate family. The funeral is not about your fucking needs and wants. It's about a shattered husband, in this case, saying goodbye to the woman he wanted to grow old with. He has to go back and lie in an empty bed while the parents can go home feeling justified because their darling children have had a life lesson. Ffs

I'm so sorry for your lose OP and I think your nephew is being a prick.

So sorry for your loss OP. YANBU it's your dad's choice and he's said he doesn't want small kids. The children's mum/dad needs to respect this. If it means she doesn't come to the service so be it. Funerals are about personal grieving not about 'the rights of a 3 year old to see adults sad'. I hope the mother agrees to this. What an awful situation for her to openly go against family wished at this time.

Although the op's nephew and his partner may also be personally grieving for his grandmother. It is possible that the children are too. We don't know what relationship that family has had with their grandma/great grandma.

I have never understood the hierarchy of grief, how can anyone else judge who "loved" the deceased most or who will be most affected by the death? I think this is a time to be inclusive and to respect each others grief.

My father died when I was a child, one of the things that stands out for me is the memory of my mother going over to speak to a woman I didn't know at the time. I was told later she had been engaged to my father before he met my mother and she had never married, never got over him. My mother's generosity and caring towards that woman was a shining example of respect for someone else.

OP your nephew may have loved your mother more than you, the same as you or less than you, who can say? He is entitled to say his goodbyes and if having his children with him helps why should he be denied that. People have talked about being distracted by children or the occasion being spoilt. When my mother died I wouldn't have noticed if a rock band had arrived and started playing at the rear of the church, somethings make the rest of the world disappear.

Your nephew's wife is clearly upset as her husband is upset. I think you need to look after yourself and don't worry about what other people are doing. This is a hard time for you all, I think your mother would be more upset about the fallout than by the children being at the funeral.

From experience. ...

When my grandmother died in 2012, my aunt (eldest of two daughters ) banned my children from attending. My mother (younger daughter) tried to change her mind but couldn't get anywhere. The result was that my husband and I drove from Essex to Scotland with our children, for him to wait outside the crematorium with our youngest (3) after my aunt decided that my eldest (13) could attend. The reason my children were not supposed to attend was because my cousin did not want to bring her children.

I initially refused to go to the funeral as a result, I only went to support my mum in the end and I barely spoke to my aunt.

I will never forgive my aunt for her actions. I'm still absolutely disgusted with her and I'm sure she knows it. We were also excluded from the spreading of my grandmothers ashes. We all (my mother included) found out after it had been done.

The people saying the OP is being unreasonable, have you actually read the thread properly.

The deceased did not want DC at her funeral and the deceased DH does not want DC there

It's a fucked up person who would go against those wishes.

Were the children close to their ggm? My children were not close to one ggp who died recently, so I only took my eldest child (9). If it had been one of the other ggp, I would have had no hesitation in taking them all (9,7,5) because they are much much closer to them and we are closer as a family unit to my side of the family.

What does the children's grandparent think (is that your sibling) about children attending?

So sorry for your loss

No, yanbu. It'seems your mother's funeral and your choice.my blood boils for you.

Parents do not have the right to be precious about their children and assume their presence is always welcome because THEY say so.
If your nephew's wife doesn'the make a bid deal about the funeral but talks to the children about the wake afterwards it should be fine. The sense of entitlement to decide about the children is a poor reflection on her and she has put her DHL in a horrible place - choosing her or his family. In her shoes I'd stay home with them and join the family later (in absence of childcare - she must have friends , or maybe not...) As for nephew needing her support - he has his family.

Sorry to go on but this ugly scenario comes up lots, weddings, funerals, family parties. It's the hosts choice, full stop.

Believe me when I say the children will get over not going, quicker than the poor husband will get over the fact that his wifes wishes, and his, were trampled over to prove a point. But sure never mind, because he couldn't possibly be suffering more than the kids.