To request no children at my Mum's funeral?

[missmalteaser]

I know I am deep in grief and anger stages right now so maybe not thinking straight.

I know that my mum would not have wanted her two Great grandchildren to be upset (they are 3 and 6)/attend her funeral, so I politely asked the mum of the children (nephew's partner) if she could veto the service and bring them straight to the wake as these are the wishes of my Dad and I truly believe the wishes of my late mum. She is still insisting on bringing them and has also caused a rift between us and nephew at a time when we should be pulling together. Her excuse is lack of childcare, although her mum and dad are heavily involved with the children.

As an aside, selfishly I don't want toddlers interrupting my final goodbye to my Mum.

Please help.

My dgf died when my ds was 4, my niece was 3. Both went to the funeral and sat with us in the family seats at the funeral. While mourners were arriving the coffin was open but higher than the eye level of the dc. The children asked to see their great grandfather and I held my ds 4 up to see him, then my niece. My brother was present and had no objection to his dd seeing our dgf. The dc took it in their stride.
During the service the dc were kept quiet being bribed with milk chocolate buttons. It was a family time.

Since the husband of the deceased doesnt want kids there, there can be a separate memorial that children can attend.
No one can complain about that. It gives the children closure in a way that doesnt upset the adults.

there should be no 'assumed heirarchy' of grief, or at least no assumed heirarchy that implies 'closer on family tree = most grieving / most entitled to run the mourning as they see fit'.

What utter rubbish??? By your reckoning Bob and Hilda from over the road have more say than the spouse of teh deceased?

I've already posted upthread that I think there is no option but to respect the widower's wishes. But having said that, it does shock me that so many adults see children as upsetting or a nuisance at a funeral, instead of as fellow mourners. (By which I mean children who are old enough to understand that someone has died and that the funeral is the 'goodbye').

I read a lot of threads on mumsnet where it seems to cause real hurt within families that someone wants to bring children and someone else doesn't want them there. Or even, for that matter, when one person doesn't want another to attend a funeral because of some back story. It's very alien to me, because funerals here are just a massive free for all and I've never known anyone to be offended by someone attending. Although I've seen plenty of offence caused by people not attending, or not bringing their children.

Sorry for your loss. It's always a difficult time for everyone, but so important to work to keep the family together throughout the process. Having attended many family and non-family funerals, I have to say that actually I think that the 'formal' service part of a funeral is often far more suitable for children than the wake, when emotions tend to flood out far more freely (sometimes aided by alcohol) A formal church service is generally aimed at remembering and giving thanks for the deceased's life and the good things about them. Not scary or morbid. Just part of life.

Tiggy - I suppose this is such an emotive subject you can't help but reflect on your personal experiences/feelings. I shouldn't really of used the example I did as my gf was killed in an awful way - the memories of that day do haunt me and I'm pleased I wasn't at the funeral. Again my experience skewing my opinion.

There really is no right answer to the kids at funerals question, however, I do wonder if it's a cultural/regional thing or even a family thing as I've only ever seen kids at a funeral once in all that I've been to and everyone was commenting on them being there (in a positive way) as like I say it's just not the done thing really.

But... This thread is about a grieving windowers wishes being respected and the turmoil their family is in so I'm going to bow out now as I feel like I'm derailing it a bit.

If you are still with us op

Realfootyfan re "I just don't believe anyone's grief trumps anyone else's. It is convenient OP that you 'know' what your mother would have wanted and how that just supports what you want. You've admitted you are being selfish. " this is an appalling thing to say! No one's grief trumps another! so the lifetime partner or child of a deceased person is no more upset than a three year old child who may or may not know the person very well at all. That is ridiculous!

Imagine how you might feel if your mum, or dad or partner dies and then someone tell you that someone else, who is not a blood relative, but happens to be married to your nephew is experiencing equal grief to you and no one trumps anyone on the grief stakes.

Of course others can feel extreme grief, but there is a hierarchy of mourners that is recognised by the funeral industry and we are talking about a funeral, not about giref in general.

There may well be people who will miss the deceased a lot. I once went a funeral and sat next to the best friend of the deceased, (the funeral was for my God daughter's grandmother). This friend had known the woman for fifty years and they holidayed together. As the coffin sailed off this lovely woman blew a kiss. It was very, very sad. She will, in many ways I feel, miss the deceased in a way that the immediate family may not. But the reality is that in this country next of kin take precedent and people know that.

There is an etiquette to all this, a tradition. Many of this changes and people can choose to do things differently. But the chief mourners who organise the funeral get to choose and others should respect their wishes.

When the time comes for others to organise the funeral of a dearly loved close relative they may find that strangely their choices have changed and having very young children present is not something they want!

www.dignityfunerals.co.uk/funeral-services/advice/a-guide-to-funeral-etiquette/

I'm so sorry for your loss and I don't think you are being unreasonable. I didn't attend my great grandmother's funeral (she died when I was 8) and I don't feel it's affected me. I also think that if they'll be attending the wake it's not like they'll miss the proceedings entirely, but it might be easier on them and the family.
That said, my DS3 went to his parents' funeral age 4 and now he says he's really happy he got to say goodbye one last time.
Ultimately, and perhaps coldly, it comes down to whoever's paying the majority. If they're paying then they choose, if you or your father are paying then you/he get final say.

My grandmother died last year. If one of her daughters had told me not to bring my children to the funeral I would have nodded politely and ignored them. My grandmother had a relationship with me (a strong, unique and surprisingly frank one). She also had a relationship with her great-grandchildren. They brought her endless satisfaction.
To the OP, yes, it is a very severe loss to you personally, but your mother is also a loss to other people. Try to celebrate that love she had in her life, rather than mourn her loss.
I'm sorry for your loss.

"But having said that, it does shock me that so many adults see children as upsetting or a nuisance at a funeral, instead of as fellow mourners. (By which I mean children who are old enough to understand that someone has died and that the funeral is the 'goodbye')." Which would almost certainly not include a 3 year old in my humble opinion.

Children are wonderful but they do not need to be present everywhere, not for their own benefit or the benefit of others. When my husband grandmother died he did not want me or the kids to go, I respected that. I am sure having our quite boisterous kids present would have been very distracting for him, and although I had met her number of times and liked her, I respected my husband's wishes and did not attend.

Not everyone wants the mood lightened, not everyone wants to be distracted, and not everyone wants to think about the next generation.

Children can cause distractions and make it harder to follow what is going on, not just for those who are looking after them but for everyone else.

Maybe, just maybe the family do not have a great relationship with the nephew's wife or partner, is this a good time to try and address this? Is this appalling behaviour going to help?

tiggytape you are talking about children grieving, which I know they do. But I wonder how many children grieve for fairly distant relatives. It really depends how much the children knew their great grandmother.

It's clear you have very strong feelings about grief. And I agree about women who lost babies etc, that was awful.

But very young children do not necessarily grieve in the same way because the do not necessarily understand death in the same way. They review their grief over time. Being at a short service or not being there should not be the be all and end all. I find it alarming that the needs of very young children would be put above the wishes of the husband and daughter of the diseased.

I went to a funeral attended by young children and one of them talked loudly all the way through it. We couldn't hear the goodbye poems and wishes from the family members who got up to speak, it was so distracting and the parents made almost no attempt to get the child to be quiet.
I would hope that at ages 3 and 6 that wouldn't happen though. The 'offender' at the funeral I attended was aged 2.

I think a lot depends on how close the child was to the person who died. My grandmother resented the fact that she was not allowed to attend her own mother's funeral because she was a child. Her own grief was belittled because she was three years old. The death of her mother was sudden and unexpected. My grandmother lost her mother when she needed her most.

I feel that young children should not attend funerals of distant relatives. Toddlers in church are disruptive especially if they have not been taught how to behave in church. Disrespecting the wishes of the immediate mourners is unacceptable.

Agree entirely with tiggytape - there is much evidence to suggest that the messed up, taboo like relationship many of us have with death starts with such attitudes towards us in our childhood. I think it's really important for children to attend funerals as a normal part of love and loss and life.

Grief is not a competition although I recognise the pain that makes you get stuck into that way of thinking. Almost 5 years on from my mum's death I can just treasure the closeness we had with no need to prove I was closER than anyone else. It was frustrating at the time due to my own particular family dynamics.

If it's a church funeral it's a public service anyway - less so at the crematorium. If I was getting unrequited e-mails on the basis of something I might have said, maybe taken out of context - rather than inflame I'd probably step away and not engage too.

I'm sorry you are grieving and sad - I do hope you will be able to let all who want to come without reproach and that you have comfort at this time of mourning.

By your reckoning Bob and Hilda from over the road have more say than the spouse of teh deceased?

Bob and Hilda have no say over what the flowers are, or what songs are played. But Bob and Hilda should have every right to attend the funeral and pay their respects.

YANBU. Personally I prefer to let children attend funerals but the wishes of immediate family come first. Lots of people are talking about the wonderful learning experience a funeral is for children and that's fine but that's not what a funeral is for, it's to let people grieve and say goodbye, if the child is a close relative then they should be included in that, if not then their need to learn about death should not trump the need of the close family to grieve in the way they want.

Really torn on this to be honest. More so with the six year old. Does he have less of a right to attend the funeral of his great grandmother than the op does her Mum. Is his grief less because he is a child.

Dd attended her first funeral at 8. Her great grandparent. It helped her deal with things. The service was lovely. I wouldn't have denied her that chance to say goodbye. It was her right as much as my Dads.

If the church service part is open to all, is it the same if cremation only?

I do think it's unfair that grieving family have added stress at this sad time; worrying that some people who they'd rather didn't attend are in fact able to by law. (obviously not quite the same situation for the OP, I realise).

What if estrangement has taken place and the deceased/deceased's family would rather not have certain people attending?

A funeral is not a 'learning opportunity' nor a 'life experience ' neither is it place for children to provide 'comfort' for others, if the spouse has specifically requested they not attend.

If your views are that your little darlings should attend a funeral and their is no such request from the immediate family. (Spouse or child) then crack on with whatever you, as a parent considers best but your choice only comes into play when there is no specific request. Whatever your opinion it does not over ride the wishes of nearest relatives. In this case a specific request from a spouse overrides the wishes of a great-nephew and his partner. YANBU

dd at the age of six was very upset when her neighbour died of lung cancer, but I didn't let her attend the funeral. The funeral was for close family and friends are there to support those who are immediate family.

Dd attended a general memorial service for those who lost a friend/ relative from cancer orgsnisated by the local hospice last Christmas. (Three months after the death) They had a Christmas tree and everyone wrote the name if the person they were remembering on a piece of card and hung that card on the tree. We met other people remembering the same person.

Children do experience grief, but their needs do not trump close mourners. Sometimes there are better ways of managing grief than taking a young child to a funeral.

When DH's grandma died, MIL wanted our DC to attend the funeral. They were old enough to be given the choice of going and they chose not to as they had never been to one before and thought it would be too sad. She was quite cross as she thought I should've told them they were going and had no say in the matter.
In the case of the OP, the wishes of her DF should be the deciding factor. If he doesn't want small children there, the partner should accept that.

'Children do experience grief, but their needs do not trump close mourners'

I agree in your circumstances but in the op it is the childs great grandmother.

My dd was closer to her great grand father (saw daily) than half of the adults there. I would have been upset if my aunt had told me she couldn't go.