To ask that people consider giving up leather?

[Breadandwine]

I’ve been a vegan for 13 years. My concerns are animal welfare and global warming, plus I feel it's good for my health.

With regard to animal welfare, I have issues with every aspect of animal husbandry - but I have to be honest, until now, I haven’t given much thought to leather. I avoid it, certainly - it took several years of delicate negotiations before I persuaded my wife to accept a faux leather suite instead of the leather one she wanted - but I’ve always thought leather to be a by-product of the dairy industry.

Not so. An article by Lucy Siegle in this morning’s Observer Magazine brought me up short.

Leather production seems to be worse than other forms of animal cruelty in that humans are suffering too:

"Finally the animals are skinned (in front of each other) in the back streets of Dhaka. The skins are processed in makeshift tanneries with workers, including children, knee deep in toxic chemicals."

The meat is definately worth more than the hide!

Can get leather in my Europe that's made without all those toxic chemicals and child labour plus the meat of the animal will also be eaten (as no one is going to throw away reindeer meat, its worth a lot of money!) so very ethical plus it supports reindeer husbandry which is very important to the Sami people.

www.kero.se/en/skomakeriet/naturgarvat/

Oops, its not my Europe, I can share it with everyone!

Who cares what is a byproduct of what? The point is that both the meat and the skin of the animal is used.

The point Cote, is that the cows being slaughtered for meat and the cows being slaughtered for leather are not necessarily the same cows. They would have been once, they still are in some regions which can't afford to be so fussy but in much of the Western world, breeding for different attributes has meant a marked divergence. It's the same reason why different cows are used for beef production than dairy farming, and why some of the best sheep breeds for wool are not necessarily prized for meat.

They can be the same in some cases, but increasingly they're not. So that's potentially up to twice as many cows being killed to service our dietary and clothing/furniture/accessory needs.

Impressed but not surprised the owner of Europe is a mumsnetter

I actually think you have a good point. Add wool to it as well. Be aware of what you are buying/eating/wearing. We ALL should be doing this.

We have a farm, we live in Brazil so all our leather comes from Brazil. We are nowhere near the rainforest (about as far from London is from Cairo) our beef comes from pasture raised cows on farms that are over 100 years old and do not contribute to illegal logging or deforestation. Although this is a problem (seperate and needs to be addressed). The problem rainforests are facing is illegal logging and international companies. The Brazilian wildlife police are often fighting the battle alone and against the rest of the world. Also other products need to be highlighted. Unfortunalty a lot of emphasis is put on meat products and their environmental and humane issues. If anyone is under the impression that the only plant based product we should be concerned about is Palm Oil then they are sadly very very wrong.

I am shocked sometimes at the range and quantity that my vegan and vegetarian friends in the UK eat. Mangos, bananas, coconuts, grains and pulses and many nuts that come from endangered trees. They would do more for the planet if they drunk cows milk from Leicestershire and eggs from the lady at number 24. But who am I to dictate what they put in their bodies?

Chimps get their calcium from things like mud, clay, insects and nuts. Comparing the diets of other primates is silly though, we are not evolved versions of them, we are completely different. We could not eat the raw meat of a baby baboon and be OK. One thing we can learn from them though is too much meat is a modern luxury and as it's not THAT good for you might not be all that much of a luxury anyway.

Sorry but mcvities has glucose fructose syrup which is really bad for your health. (Not unethical though)

And pleather or PVC is hugely toxic. Especially to children.

Impressed but not surprised the owner of Europe is a mumsnetter If you're nice to me I'll let you have a little bit of Europe all to yourself

tomatoIzzy you have a point - I try to buy British-grown vegetables though (and keep an eye on the palm oil).

I do drink soy milk, but I figure that as a human I'm only complicit in 10% of the damage that rearing soy beans causes (90% of soy production is for animal feed).

And I'd like to get in on this 'little bit of Europe' action if there's any spare please

The op once told me on a thread and then sent me a private message to say that my husband's cancer could be cured by fasting. I paraphrase slightly, but that was the gist. I can safely say that I will not be taking her/his advice on anything.

The op once told me on a thread and then sent me a private message to say that my husband's cancer could be cured by fasting

If that's the case, then he should be ashamed of himself. Bloody disgusting. Sorry about your husband, Fire.

The leather and the meat are from the same animal! Especially in the Western world!! Otherwise when a cow costs ballpark £600 - £1600 and it must take at least two to make a £900 sofa, do we imagine that the rest of the process is done by DFS free of charge or heavily subsidised for our benefit?? If you Google cow hide you can buy them for less than £180 - and that's after someone had gone to the expense of tanning it. Of course it's a by-product!!

Hides are of different quality now, correct, but it just means that some hides go for expensive leather car seats whilst others go for cheaper products, but at the end of the day the animal was produced primarily to produce milk or meat. My cousin is married to a farmer and says they talk about the 'fifth quarter' which is the hide and offal and is an added extra.

Just to be clear I have never owned a coat as I find them annoying to wear. I am from the north and feel the cold but would rather be cold than bundled up in a coat that either flaps about in the wind or feels like you are in a straight jacket. I also dont own an iron, a microwave or a vacuum cleaner. I also don't have any carpets in the house.
Mercedes didn't make the claim that they were the only cars with non leather seats, you could get non leather/cloth seats in other cars the only problem was I wanted cloth seats with a specific spec and as that spec meant you had to buy the upper range of a particular make then leather was added as standard. (having sat in a few with leather seats I cannot understand why anyone would put up with hard uncomfortable seats smelled) With Mercedes I could have my non leather seats, steering wheel etc and get the spec I wanted. The only other car I came across that ticked all the boxes was a certain make of Prius.

I love my car leather seats. I haven't phoned them to ask for confirmation that they are not dog hide from China yet but as far as I know it was made in Germany. That's what I am told when I question the extortionate service costs (in ME)
It is one of the most exquisite sitting experiences of my life and I am pretty lazy.

Thanks Poverty. He's actually cancer free at the moment by the miracle of modern medicine and managed quite well without any "alternative" stuff.

Fortunately people like the op make me annoyed rather than upset now. I dare say they mean well, but honestly....

Such a shame to see vegetarian and vegan bashing comments. I am vegetarian, and try to have minimal leather.

You mean only jackets and shoes? Me too.

I'll avoid leather coats in future. Nothing but fur.

I'd just like to point out that I don't believe fasting will cure cancer and I don't think it is a majority viewpoint amongst vegans either. That's a different thing. I fully believe in pharmaceuticals, I write about them for a living!

I'm sorry that your DH was so ill fireside; it's wonderful that he has recovered.

Yes it is a completely separate issue, but I do question the op's evangelical zeal.

Sorry but mcvities has glucose fructose syrup which is really bad for your health. (Not unethical though)

it could be unethical. If eating something bad for you causes you to gain weight then you become ill and need the NHS that 'could' be considered unethical.

I don't think it's unethical. But my point is that everyone including vegans make choices that other people may feel are unethical. Depending on far you want to take it.

fireside sorry you had to be earbashed by those loons. I had to quit a job I loved years ago because I couldn't drive and used to get hassled by an evangelical Christian for the 4 hour round trip bus ride. I had to sit next to her because it was the ladies seats in ME. I know it's not as bad but people with that mad glint are impossible to reason with.

tangerinesarenottheonlyfruit i'm
Sure many posters are engaging their brain, but may be a little fed up of these types of posts as they seem to be everywhere at the moment.

Op i don't use a lot of leather ( only a few of my bags are actually leather and one pair of shoes are proper leather) however i really do not fancy alternative footwear, nor a hemp bag.
I don't like the idea of animals being skinned alive and fully support fur farms being stopped.
However i think cows are going to be slaughtered for meat anyway, so we should use as much of the animal as possible. I do wish that there were more stringent laws outside of this country though.
I will never be against leather though, as another biker up thread mentioned, if it's the leather or my dh husband needing a skingraft then i'll keep the leather.

firesidechat what?? The op who started this thread?
How fucking disgusting! Things like that seriously piss me off!
I have no problem with people being vegan or vegetarian( tried it however i have food issues so it simply made my health problems worse) and friends who are( however they never push their views onto others and actually work in catering).
However it is their choice.
How dare people try to spread this type of crap! I too have had this!
Apparently this special cream could cure cancer fucking livid as i had lost my parent from cancer.
So sorry you had this fire absolute disgrace! Very hear he is doing well x