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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be furious with my oh?

137 replies

CauliflowerBalti · 07/03/2016 13:23

He's a very clever man. A quality I really admire.

However.

Sometimes we will be having a conversation, or I will ask him a question, and I will know that he's talking bollocks. I'll say that I don't think that's right - or indeed, that I know it isn't right - and he will get very defensive: 'Trust me Cauliflower, I know what I'm talking about, I'm right on this.'

In those instances, there's no point in continuing the discussion when we are both putting forward opinion as fact without any means of verifying, so I inevitably just change the subject.

Yesterday he told me something that I knew was wrong, and that if he carried on believing would result in him breaking the law. I told him at the time he was wrong and he did his usual 'I KNOW this, I'm right thing' so I just shut up. I googled it when he got home though to check and told him - not to score points, but to avoid him breaking the law.

He went mental at me. I'm always doing this, always undermining him intellectually and doubting the things that he tells me. Why can't I just listen to him and accept that he knows?

Um. Because I'm not a good little woman who automatically believes everything that her man tells her in wide-eyed wonder. Because he's not God - he doesn't know everything about everything.

He says it is damaging to his self-esteem and that I am always doing it. I say I will check things if I think they are wrong and they matter - like inadvertently breaking the law - or if he's gone so OTT in his 'Just listen to me Cauliflower I know what I'm talking about I am right and you are wrong and I can't believe you are questioning me' schtick that it does become about childish point scoring and I will seek the evidence I need to wipe the smug expression off his face.

Yes. I know. That is childish. But he drives me fucking potty.

So. AIBU to be sitting here wondering why I'm with someone who has such a deep-seated desire to be right that he can't stand being questioned? Or is it my problem, because I need to be right too? (No. It isn't that I have to be right. I only get cross when he tells me I am WRONG and I know I am not.)

OP posts:

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/03/2016 11:14

"We've only been together a year."
That surprised me. A year is usually still in the 'honeymoon' period when you are both still trying to impress/snare each other. For him to be so arrogant and disrespectful at this stage of your relationship does not bode well. It's the behaviour of someone who feels he doesn't have to try any more, he owns you. Which is another example of arrogance. If he can't stop being a dick, how do you think you will feel about him a few more years down the line?

lorelei9 · 08/03/2016 11:20

I was also surprised to hear you'd only been together a year!

not so much because anyone should be trying to impress anyone but this isn't even a relationship of long standing where a bit of work would possibly be in order to save the relationship....I'm surprised you didn't lose interest when you first saw this trait.

But then I'm mystified by people who get so upset about appearing to be wrong.

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 08/03/2016 11:53

This was the first thing that annoyed my Sis about her ex, it took her a few years to realise he was trying to control her in many more ways.

But getting her to accept shut up about disagreeing with him was just the first step.

Original poster

CauliflowerBalti · 08/03/2016 12:10

You're only seeing the negative character trait I've whinged about here though. We all have our... quirks.

He has billions of redeeming features, most notably his (kind of autistic, actually) ability to take on board feedback and never make the same mistake again. We had a huge row about division of labour (it's on here in Relationships somewhere) and after initial reluctance to see things my way, I now have a model partner when it comes to domesticity.

So when things go wrong, he is willing to work to make things right. This is a fine, fine quality in a human being.

He's also truly, truly brilliant with my son, very kind, loving and gentle with both of us, we share the same (dark) sense of humour, and he's really outstandingly very good in bed.

I think it should be more surprising if I was complaining about this after decades together. I'm nipping this shit in the bud right here and now.

He's not perfect. Neither am I.

OP posts:

glowfrog · 08/03/2016 12:13

If all the above is true, Cauli, then YABVVVU and I don't know why you came here to whinge about this! Is this another form of humble-brag??

BertrandRussell · 08/03/2016 13:19

"He has billions of redeeming features, most notably his (kind of autistic, actually) ability to take on board feedback and never make the same mistake again."

Well, apart from the mistake of always thinking he's right and you're wrong...............

Original poster

CauliflowerBalti · 08/03/2016 14:38

I've never raised it as an issue before, though. And tbh I probably wouldn't have done if he hadn't exploded at me about damaging his self-esteem, the poor little petal - it's when that happened that I got really pissed off. I sent him a reasonable email about it yesterday explaining my position and telling him he needs to accept that he isn't always right, and that I should feel free to challenge him without tantrum.

I assumed he would acknowledge this email last night, but he didn't. However. We had a heated debate about the EU last night (honestly, we mostly talk about the boy, our holidays and coping mechanics in a Walking Deadesque zombie apocalypse, not politics) and I didn't want to kill him, even though I deliberately poked at things I know he'd take issue with. People have to be given a chance to change, right...?

OP posts:

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 08/03/2016 14:45

People have the right to change, not putting the toothpaste away, leaving wet clothes on the floor etc.
Expecting you not to argue with them and sulking when you do, NO... RUN.

shovetheholly · 08/03/2016 14:53

I think you sound very sane, actually, cauli. You're well aware this is a problem. I suspect it would be a deal-breaker for you were it to continue. I also suspect part of you deliberately chose a controversial topic to discuss last night, wanting to see how he might react having been thinking about this all day. The fact that you sent an email is a good start.

But you're also willing to give this a little bit of time, given that the guy has form for taking on board criticism and effecting real and lasting change with regard to housework. That seems sensible and reasonable, as long as there's an intention to take further action if he doesn't mend what is really very unreasonable behaviour (as I said upthread).

allegretto · 08/03/2016 14:53

What's his job? Mine is a professor so Ihave a theory that he is used to people telling him he's right! Mine does not tell me not to argue with him (tbh I couldn't put up with that!) But he does seem incapable of saying he doesn't know something. For example, ds asked what kind of tree he saw and dh answered "oak" because he knows nothing about trees but can't just say I don't know or ask your mum! Gets a bit wearing.

allegretto · 08/03/2016 14:56

Leave this open on your computer and see if he gets it!en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/03/2016 14:59

"People have to be given a chance to change, right...?"
I can agree with that. But - some people either don't want to change, or it is too fundamental to their personality to be able to change. If he takes stock and realises he's in the wrong and takes steps to stop being a special snowflake, all well and good.

But if he stayed the same - "He went mental at me. I'm always doing this, always undermining him intellectually and doubting the things that he tells me. Why can't I just listen to him and accept that he knows?" then it would absolutely be a dealbreaker for me.

shovetheholly · 08/03/2016 15:09

allegretto - my DH is a professor too, and he's the absolute opposite. Will always admit what he doesn't know (even when it's his own area), and is a brilliant listener. Though it probably helps that I am quite prepared to tell him in the most forthright terms that HE IS WRONG when he is.

It's not something that goes with the job - you don't have to put up with it!

allegretto · 08/03/2016 15:23

Shove - don't worry - I don't!

Original poster

CauliflowerBalti · 08/03/2016 15:26

If he's still doing it in 18 months' time, I'll bury him under the patio. Better that way. Saves his next partner.

He works in IT. I think the thing is he feels he has something to prove. Comments about family and upbringing further upthread are salient. His Dad is extremely intelligent and very, very forthright in his opinions. He is the type you'd avoid at parties. He takes never being wrong to ridiculous extremes. His brother is internationally recognised to be the best at what he does in the world, corner office in Manhattan, dripping with awards. My man must feel he has stuff to prove. When he says it damages his self-esteem, it probably does. But I'm not about to spend the rest of my days pandering to a broken ego. If he doesn't like it when his girlfriend (well-meaningly) corrects him when he is wrong, it is his problem, not mine. If he thinks I do it all the time to undermine him, he is wrong, and it his problem, not mine.

I do think he will make an effort to change. It's how he works. His previous relationship was so dysfunctional and unusual - he doesn't have the tools to deal with a woman like me, or indeed like anyone who is reasonable and maintains a semi-convincing show of being sane. But he is a very quick learner.

I have high hopes. Isn't that how relationships should be? I want to think the best of him.

OP posts:

lorelei9 · 08/03/2016 15:47

"I want to think the best of him."

oh Cauliflower...don't you realise, the sky only stays up because me and the other pessimists are holding it there?

I think you probably mean you've been living together a year rather than only together a year?

in terms of if he had become like this in a long relationship. My parents are nearly 80 and they've been together since they were teens. People change a lot over a lifetime, good and bad, so I was thinking if you've been together 20 years and he's fab, he could be having a blip IYSWIM. Goodness knows, I've had to put my folks on the naughty step a couple of times

Original poster

CauliflowerBalti · 08/03/2016 15:56

No, we've only been together a year. We've been living together for about 3 months. It's all very new and shiny - but we're both in our early 40s, so it's not exactly love's young dream. Blocks have been travelled around. Lessons learned. T-shirts bought. Our age works in our favour, in that we are fairly realistic and grounded, but also against us - you get set in your ways. I've been on my own for 5 years, his last relationship ended a couple of years ago and was very difficult. Coming together has been challenging, but as we're both good communicators and able to articulate what we want and need, it's not a nightmare.

I am trying to approach blips and differences with an open heart and mind and very firm ideas about what I'll put up with. There is no room for pessimism in a relationship, no no no!

OP posts:

lorelei9 · 08/03/2016 16:04

Cauliflower "very firm ideas about what I'll put up with."

that's good. Seems like a direct clash with trying to think the best though. Trying to see reality seems a good plan.

lorelei9 · 08/03/2016 16:05

if someone with no direct experience of my job talked to me about how to do my job and pretended they knew more than me, I'd see that as a very bad thing.

Original poster

CauliflowerBalti · 08/03/2016 16:10

I think that if every time someone did something annoying/rude/frustrating/disrespectful in a relationship, you called it quits and walked away, there would be absolutely no relationships left. I don't see it as a very bad thing. I see it as him trying to demonstrate his understanding in a very patronising way. If I ask him to stop and he doesn't, and it continues to annoy me, then it could become a very bad thing. As it stands - it's just a thing.

Let me tell you about the insanely annoying way he coughs, though. That's a really fucking bad thing. That deserves an AIBU all of its own.

OP posts:

WhereYouLeftIt · 08/03/2016 16:13

"If he's still doing it in 18 months' time, I'll bury him under the patio. Better that way. Saves his next partner."
I do like your style .

"I think it should be more surprising if I was complaining about this after decades together."
Sadly the Relationships board if choc-full of threads where everything was hunky-dory for years, or at least until the OP had given up work to be a SAHP and was financially vulnerable. That seems to trigger a lot of regressive attitudes in men, hence my assuming you'd been together long enough for that (or another) trigger to have been sprung.

lorelei9 · 08/03/2016 16:13

Cauliflower "I think that if every time someone did something annoying/rude/frustrating/disrespectful in a relationship, you called it quits and walked away, there would be absolutely no relationships left"

I guess of all those, "rude" and "disrespectful" jump out at me.

Original poster

CauliflowerBalti · 08/03/2016 16:19

Ah lorelei, I'm really no doormat. If I was, this wouldn't have blown up. I'd have accepted that blue is green for an easy life. There's a difference between thoughtlessy rude/disrespectful, and wilfully so. And how someone responds to being called out on it makes a difference too.

If I'm whinging about this still in a couple of years, you can merrily shoot me.

OP posts:

Stormtreader · 08/03/2016 16:27

I think it all sounds very promising - you seem like you have firm boundaries and a good sense of humour, and those can only help!

Im really hoping that you update at some point in the future with "he agreed he was wrong, the world didnt collapse in on itself, we carried on eating chips and everything was fine. I have put away the patio tools." :)

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 08/03/2016 22:11

I suppose I am more pessimistic as my very strong minded sister just started shutting up to save the arguments

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