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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be furious with my oh?

137 replies

CauliflowerBalti · 07/03/2016 13:23

He's a very clever man. A quality I really admire.

However.

Sometimes we will be having a conversation, or I will ask him a question, and I will know that he's talking bollocks. I'll say that I don't think that's right - or indeed, that I know it isn't right - and he will get very defensive: 'Trust me Cauliflower, I know what I'm talking about, I'm right on this.'

In those instances, there's no point in continuing the discussion when we are both putting forward opinion as fact without any means of verifying, so I inevitably just change the subject.

Yesterday he told me something that I knew was wrong, and that if he carried on believing would result in him breaking the law. I told him at the time he was wrong and he did his usual 'I KNOW this, I'm right thing' so I just shut up. I googled it when he got home though to check and told him - not to score points, but to avoid him breaking the law.

He went mental at me. I'm always doing this, always undermining him intellectually and doubting the things that he tells me. Why can't I just listen to him and accept that he knows?

Um. Because I'm not a good little woman who automatically believes everything that her man tells her in wide-eyed wonder. Because he's not God - he doesn't know everything about everything.

He says it is damaging to his self-esteem and that I am always doing it. I say I will check things if I think they are wrong and they matter - like inadvertently breaking the law - or if he's gone so OTT in his 'Just listen to me Cauliflower I know what I'm talking about I am right and you are wrong and I can't believe you are questioning me' schtick that it does become about childish point scoring and I will seek the evidence I need to wipe the smug expression off his face.

Yes. I know. That is childish. But he drives me fucking potty.

So. AIBU to be sitting here wondering why I'm with someone who has such a deep-seated desire to be right that he can't stand being questioned? Or is it my problem, because I need to be right too? (No. It isn't that I have to be right. I only get cross when he tells me I am WRONG and I know I am not.)

OP posts:
lorelei9 · 07/03/2016 18:48

I hate the term emasculate as I usually hear it in the context of "how ver dare a woman do something a man does".

There may be hope OP. I think my dad did this a bit when I was a kid but now he thinks I'm right all the time which is worrying

lalalalyra · 07/03/2016 18:52

I'd ask him, calmly and simply, why it was acceptable for him to undermine you when you know that you know something and what does he think it does to your self-esteem when he expects you not to be right about something, even when you know you are.

lottiegarbanzo · 07/03/2016 19:53

I see others have got there first - just came back to say that he needs to undertake the thought experiment of imagining being you, discussing a point with him on which you know (from coincidental recent research) you are right. How does it feel to encounter him? How would he deal with that?

Reminds me of an instance when I was v. young, going for a run with some bloke. He sprinted at the end, to finish before me. I asked why and he said 'well, I couldn't let myself be beaten by you, could I? What would that do for my pride?' I replied 'hang on, I'm the one who's recently trained for and run a half marathon, so I'm the one with expectations of competence, 'pride' to be dented here.' He was rather flabbergasted and admitted the idea of my possessing pride just hadn't occurred to him.

Has it not occurred to your DH that you have, or require, self-esteem?

I've never actually heard anyone use the word emasculate. To me and I'm 42, it's a 'heritage' now quite comedic word from 1960s/70s era popular analysis (e.g. Woody Alan films), rebelled against successfully by second wave feminism (have I got the right wave? 60s/70s). It suggests extraordinarily antiquated attitudes - which would match the idea of 'proud men and handmaidens'.

JolseBaby · 07/03/2016 20:17

'Emasculate' annoys me. So often it actually translates to 'not pink and fluffy' or 'gets things done and doesn't take any shite'.

I don't give a fuck if someone thinks I am emasculating them - I am too busy getting on with my life to worry about their opinion. Their time would be better spent focussing on working on their own insecurities.

StarlingMurmuration · 07/03/2016 20:24

Are you married to my dad? He's just like this, always has to be right even when he's wrong and cannot accept being corrected, especially by his daughter. It's infuriating. Now I just try to laugh about it to myself, but it used to make me want to kill him.

OnlyHereForTheCamping · 07/03/2016 20:34

Pan ayers 'they should have asked my husband' www.pamayres.com/index.php/2011/08/they-should-have-asked-my-husband/

In particular
Upon these areas he brings his intellect to shine
In a great compelling voice that’s twice as loud as yours or mine.
I often wonder what it must be like to be so strong,
Infallible, articulate, self-confident …… and wrong.

glintwithpersperation · 07/03/2016 20:46

Tell him he's a massive prick. We all know you're right.

bigbuttons · 07/03/2016 21:08

Op this is my ex. He would also use unnecessarily complicated words that he thought I wouldn't understand. He could never be wrong about anything. He still can't.

VoldysGoneMouldy · 07/03/2016 21:18

My ex did this.

He was an arrogant, abusive controlling cunt. Still is. Difference being, he's now an ex, and I don't have to deal with it.

Neither do you.

RubbleBubble00 · 07/03/2016 21:23

Oh god this was my dh. Used drive me bloody potty. Now I say 'I know im right, we will agree to disagree' then end conversation. His mother's exactly the same - has to be right even when she's wrong.

Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 07/03/2016 21:48

He's never said I'm emasculating. Just to be clear. My ex did, and male friends have said it.

I'd kill him down dead if he said it. Take his balls. Show him what emasculation means.

We have studiously avoided the conversation tonight. It's brewing though.

OP posts:
sykadelic · 07/03/2016 21:57

Could you ask him what he would like you to do in the event of such disagreement? Are you "allowed" to say: "That doesn't sound right, I'm going to Google it". or a nicer variation: "Wow really? That's interesting/cool/scary. I might Google that later to read more about it".

Are you ever right? And if so, does he confirm that you're right (by Googling) or does he just trust that you're right? Does he apologise for being wrong, like you do?

Also, how does he show his respect for you and your knowledge? You've admitted that he is often telling you about things that you do at work, like you don't know what you're doing. Speaking down to you.

How often are you having discussions that involve someone being right or wrong? How often is he telling you about your job?

FWIW I had an ex-boyfriend like this as well. He had to be right about everything. If I found out he was wrong I was better off keeping it to myself and silently checking things out to confirm I wasn't going crazy. He was emotionally abusive in the end. Turns out to be bipolar with NPD traits. He was usually completely different around his own friends but a total "show off" around my family and friends. They thought he was a total d-bag.

BertrandRussell · 07/03/2016 22:25

I still don't understand why you say he's clever..........

SlinkyVagabond · 07/03/2016 22:32

Time for this...

queenMab99 · 08/03/2016 00:09

My husband was a bit like this, but he enjoyed a good argument discussion. We were poles apart politically, I called him toryboy, he called me bleeding heart dogooder. Question Time and This week were his favourite programmes, as he liked to scoff at the people he disagreed with. He died last year and these political programmes hold no interest for me now, I really miss wiping the floor debating with him.

Tigernoodles81 · 08/03/2016 08:05

Are you married to my husband?!!! This sounds so similar to him, it drives me potty. You are not being unreasonable at all, stick to your guns. It's taken me 12 years to even get my husband to consider I may have a valid point and that he might be wrong sometimes.

MaidOfStars · 08/03/2016 08:25

My husband and I are both clever, well-informed and with the same attitude to debate - have at it. However, neither of us would want to humiliate the other, or force submission. If one side isn't so confident to continue, it is recognised and the 'victor' closes the conversation gracefully (he does this better than me). Lots of 'Look, I could be wrong but I'm not'. It's peacekeeping, even if neither of us believe the apparent faux genuineness.

We did once have an argument about how an atomic clock works, which went on for days. We didn't want to look it up because we both relish this interplay. I was right. I don't know what he was thinking. He was so sure he was right too. Grin

EBearhug · 08/03/2016 08:53

Just want to say thanks to shovetheholly for the journal link.

Original poster
CauliflowerBalti · 08/03/2016 09:04

QueenMab, I am sorry for your loss.

We didn't speak about it. I think this is ok. We've only been together a year. I don't think anyone has told him this before. I hope he has reflected and realised he was being a bit of a dick about it. If I'm in the wrong when we have arguments like this - ones that are about our relationship not the EU or caffeine - he normally does a decent job of defending his position and making me see I'm being unreasonable. The fact he hasn't tried... Hmmm.

An apology would be nice. A 'you are right', even better. Perhaps even a trophy...?! I guess we just need to see what happens next time he insists the sky is green.

Thanks for your advice and support.

OP posts:
Tigernoodles81 · 08/03/2016 09:32

I dream of hearing the words 'you are right Mrs T' !!!!!

I normally get a bumbling around you may have a point blah blah blah and a change of topic. I know that's his way of saying I'm right!

DadDadDad · 08/03/2016 09:42

If I were speaking to your DH, my first question would be, after an episode like this, can he admit just to himself: "I was confident I was right. I made a mistake. Because Cauliflower looked it up we now know the correct answer on an important issue." Those three statements are factual and if he can't accept them in his own head, then that is going to be a barrier to intellectual growth - yours and his. (My view is that if you look into the lives of successful scientists, musicians, sportsmen etc, many gained by leaning frankly from their failures).

Then, surely the gracious thing is to say: "yes, I got that one wrong, sorry for insisting I was right, thanks for looking it up". Psychologically hard to say? Sure. The intellectually honest thing to do? Absolutely!

And that would show that he hasn't been undermined, because surely your respect for him would increase if he apologised in this way, and the communication in your relationship would improve.

Maybe I'd put all that in an email so he could digest it in his own time without too much hurt to his pride.

angielou123 · 08/03/2016 09:44

My OH is very similar. Always right, expert on everything and doesn't need to learn anything else as he already knows it all. You never win an argument with them even with cold, hard, facts in front of their face. If they do come to the realisation that they may have been mistaken, defence kicks in and you end up being the bad guy. They cannot change, it's just there nature, unfortunately.

glowfrog · 08/03/2016 10:26

He sounds like my DH, although my DH had never been anywhere as bad as that. But I have had to point out that he likes to assume he is in the right about things and that this is illogical. What pisses me off is that he might get upset if I don't believe him or agree with him on X, but if I get upset and go check on Google to prove I am right, he gets really offended!!

So your OH needs to approach any discussion at the very least with, "if she can show me I am wrong, I will accept it, and I will not assume I am smarter than her."

Because his behaviour would suggest that is what he thinks.

LaurieMarlow · 08/03/2016 10:32

Why are men such monumental cocks? Hmm

OP your DH doesn't sound half as clever as he thinks he is

TheOddity · 08/03/2016 10:43

My dad is a big quiz buff and can never accept when my (very intelligent) mum argues the toss over an answer, and always makes out that popular culture questions are less valid (because she knows the answer and he doesn't). It infuriates me but I do love to point it out to him EVERY SINGLE TIME Grin
A lot of men are insanely arrogant.