To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

Posie, I not only is it sensible to know the school's policies wrt school trips, I think they should be given to the parents before the trip is booked.

KatieT12 yes, I do. When people feel so strongly that their body deceives how their brain feels, they must have real conviction in that feeling, and I both respect and accept that.
Yes, I believe in Gender Dysphoria. I also believe that if you feel so strongly that your body is 'wrong' you will seek happiness and contentment by aligning your body with brain, through counseling, hormones, and eventual surgery if you feel that strongly it's "who you are meant to be".

In other words, if you are a woman in brain, you'll want your body to reflect that. Vice versa for being a man, obviously.

On the other side, A 52 year old man wearing a dress and frilly knickers over his penis and identifying as a 6 year old girl is not transgendered IMHO, he is a fetishist that appropriates trans culture to the detriment of genuine cases.
And Alex Dummond is as much a lesbian woman, as I'm a gay duck-billed platypus.

catching - "But do we believe that a penis is the defining factor that makes someone male? Does your vagina make you feel more female? Gender is about so much more than that!"

Male and female --> biological terms
Feminine, masculine --> gender

Male = Of the sex that can make semen.
Female = Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs.

Understanding these dictionary definitions is a requirement for participating in this debate, I'm afraid.

"How about children born intersex having ambiguous or multiple genitalia?"

Those are ABNORMALITIES, often caused by DISORDERS.

NORMAL physiology is where males have XY chromosomes and have penis & testes, while females have XX chromosomes and have vaginas.

"If a man has his penis removed after an accident does he stop becoming male?"

No. See the dictionary definition of Male above.

seasonal I don't think there's any evidence to say whether or not Jenny wants to keep and use their penis.

Plenty of TW are very very pleased with their ladydicks and have no intention of ever not using them. Over 70% of male to trans women never have genital surgery.

She has a penis
Undoubtedly
She does not want the penis!
How do you know? Loads and loads of males identify as trans but still want their penis. Dysphoria is no longer a requirement to be classified as transgender, it's transphobic and gatekeeping to suggest it is.
She is unlikely to use her penis
When they grow up a bit more, they are almost certainly going to use their penis. See above. Being trans no longer means having body dysphoria or wishing to change your genitals. Lots of trans 'lesbians' have penis in vagina (or penis in anywhere else) sex with their partners.

dione The point is that, should Jenny be permitted to share a dorm with biological females, then in a few months time, a biological male, at another school, will use Jenny's experience as precedent - insisting they they are also permitted to share with the biological females, irrespective of those females feelings about it.
Jenny may also return to school and claim ( quite reasonably) that as they have been permitted to share a dorm with biological females, that it is discriminatory of the school to insist that they use segregated toilet and changing facilities.

The decision as to where Jenny should sleep cannot be based on the feelings on others with whom they may or may not share - it is too important for there not to be an objective policy decision.

There is also the possibility that the girls will tease Jenny about her 'shenis', no matter how soft or feminine it is.

Some people here have a very old fashioned view of what counts as transgendered these days, both legally and in Trans circles. Plenty say they want to keep their penis, and call it a female penis or lady stick. Some use their penis for sex, and some have children.

This is about a far bigger picture than one school trip.

Do you know Hitler was intersex? Totally different from transgender.

HermioneWeasley

Plenty of TW are very very pleased with their ladydicks and have no intention of ever not using them. Over 70% of male to trans women never have genital surgery.

VinceNoir

lots of Trans 'lesbians' have penis in vagina sex with their partners

So, lesbians and trans lesbians have heterosexual intercourse, yet it is considered to be lesbian sex?

I am a straight woman. Hypothetically, If I wake up tomorrow and genuinely identify as male, remain in a relationship with DH but I keep my vagina, are we having male on male, gay sex?

No wonder people get wrongly labelled as narrow minded..it isn't that- we just can't keep up!

I'm staggered by the fact so many people have been duped divisions were gender lead, when all along it was sex segregation. This sex segregation has been commandeered and altered to mean gender, which is sexually oppression in and of itself, to further advance a predominantly male agenda.

Yes that would be labelled gay sex between two men.

Excuse grammar (should start previewing for typos and missed words)

Hypothetically, If I wake up tomorrow and genuinely identify as male, remain in a relationship with DH but I keep my vagina, are we having male on male, gay sex?

Not only that, you could also represent gay men at a national, political level.

Although they would tell you otherwise. The transwoman currently running for LGBT Officer at Edinburgh University claims that "she & her trans GF" are lesbians & wants to be able to throw any women who don't recognise their femaleness off campus. There was a thread a while ago by a woman whose teenage DD was very active in her school LGBT club but getting abuse from trans "lesbians" for not centering them enough.

Just to be clear: I'm really, really not accusing all transwomen of being like this. I have a few great trans friends who are horrified at the whole thing. But people have to be shown what's going on.

I think, Violet, you might then have a marginal.
Or something.

Oops, mangina

Pretty, this is a school, not a court. Jenny's details are not public property nor should they be. None of us, the OP included have been involved in the discussions with Jenny, Jenny's friends or their
parents that has resulted in the sleeping arrangements that have been made.

If Jenny wishes to use female facilities further down the line, then that can be dealt with at the time. And anyone who objects can object and should have their voices heard.

Prettybright that is both absurd, and a massive 'fuck your rights' to gay men everywhere.

Perhaps a male fango would be a mango ?

None of us, the OP included have been involved in the discussions with Jenny, Jenny's friends or their parents that has resulted in the sleeping arrangements that have been made.

dione the conversations will be irrelevant. What will be public knowledge (an FOI request can be made) is that the school permitted a biological male to share a dorm with biological females.
And, when a school down the road faces the same issue, the parents of the DC concerned then will use Jenny's experience to further their own DCs cause.

School is not court, but court is what is being threatened every day by trans-activists - to schools, employers, forums (like MN), media outlets and more.

that is both absurd, and a massive 'fuck your rights' to gay men everywhere

It is, isn't it? Yet, for some reason, there's a lot less outcry about Anna Lee - a biological male who is standing for the NUS Women's Officer position.

Why is that not seen as a threat to Women's Rights?