To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

I agree it shouldn't impact on others losing their rights and there have been scenarios e.g. MTT rapists requesting to be in a female prison. As I said repeatedly, we have no evidence that Jenny's request is impinging on the rights of others. You don't know what discussions have gone on behind the scenes which is a huge issue I have with your OP. You assumed that the girls sharing with Jenny did not consent or are having those rights overridden.

Just to show how far the trans identity cult has gone: this is Stefonknee, who identifies as a six-year-old girl, plays with real children and talks openly about getting erections when penetrated by his "foster father". Stefonknee also happens to be the trans adviser to the Canadian government.

I think the concern is that if any of the girls were uncomfortable, in this trans activist climate, they would be accused of bigotry. It shouldn't be upon their heads to make it. If Jenny identified as male no girl would be asked to make that choice.

OP, I'm glad that you agree that you have no right to know Jenny's sleeping arrangements. You do havea right to see the school's policy document wrt school trips. Just ask them for it. I'm surprised that they didn't give it to you before you booked the trip tbh.

Thanks boney - you're right, not much help.

Actually, i take that back. What is very clear from reading the guidance from Cornwall is that there is absolutely no information being given to schools about what issues may arise amongst the gender that the trans-person identifies as.
The PE section includes a great deal of info for schools about how to ensure that the trans-pupil is not disadvantaged, but a single line on ensuring that these are met sensitively in order to consider other pupils.

So, a trans-girl can use the girls changing facilities if that is what makes them most comfortable. The school haven't been advised by the DfE that this might upset the girls, so if the girls are upset by it, then the school ignores the problem.

I thought we segregated on sex for dignity and privacy, not because men may rape women.

A trans-woman will argue that they are entitled to the same dignity and dignity as a biological female, and so should be permitted to share the same female spaces.

It appears that the only way that female sex segregated spaces can remain free of penises is to emphasis the risk that penises pose. Not all penis owners are a risk, but because some owners of penises do use them as weapons, female sex segregated spaces should be kept free of all penises - irrespective of the gender of the penis owner.

Yes, exactly Posie.

I can't imagine that given the current climate many 14 year old girls, or indeed a lot of parents, would feel able to speak up for fear of being shouted down as a bigot, rather than just having legitimate concerns.

Yes. Everyone recognises that not all men are dangerous - most are absolutely fine. But we sex-segregate anyway, to be safe.

Yes Zariyah my Son has a penis.

This is why he is not sharing a dorm with girls.

What can or cannot imagine is neither here nor there Avis.

Sorry, I meant to say was "what you can or cannot imagine....".

Of course not all men are dangerous

Though if I were alone in a changing room and a man presenting himself as a woman came in I would feel uncomfortable and possibly vulnerable

OP how is Jenny going to shower/use the toilet? When I went away, the bathrooms were in each of the sections, so a male and female one? Just curious as that's the only reason I think she should be in her own room and away from her friends

Dione are you purposefully missing the point, or do you genuinely just not get it?

Avis makes a bloody good point. People are so scared of being labelled a transphobe, bigot, small minded or intolerant, they feel apprehensive about raising legitimate concerns.

I know the thread has moved on, but

"she is no different to a lesbian girl in your dd class, she just has a penis"

May be the most stupid thing I've ever read on MN. And I find it really offensive too. Words mean things - a lesbian cannot have a penis. And plenty of lesbians are being pressured into sex with men who "identify" as lesbians or else they're transphobic.

EnthusiasmDisturbed
.

^Of course not all men are dangerous.
Though if I were alone in a changing room and a man presenting himself as a woman came in I would feel uncomfortable and possibly vulnerable^

Don't worry, someone will be along soon to ask you why you feel like that. How dare you not feel totally comfortable with being naked in front of a stranger and their penis in the women's changing room, you transphobic bigot, you!

Hermoine

YY

As a lesbian said in another group "of all the people that know and love vulva's lesbians are it, if are attracted to women we expect vulvas, we know and love them better than most"

I know how dare I judge all men or trans women

Oppo pressed post too soon ...
...

When all I am wanting is a space where I don't have to feel
I might need to consider my safety

I truly do not understand, literally cannot wrap my head around the idea that a lesbian can have a penis.
Really?
what have I missed? Please, help. Surely a lesbian is a woman who is sexually attracted to/desires women. Part of that must include fale genetalia.
What am i not getting?
I honestly apologise (as a run of the mill straight woman) if I have misinterpreted lesbianism.

HermioneWeasley I have seen this too. IMO it is an insult and discredits the real trans community. I have a Lesbian friend who pointed me in the direction of some sites she takes massive exception to for this exact reason.
One being a M2F trans woman, who has no intention of surgery, but talks extensively about her 'girly dick', and 'feminine balls', labelling any woman who would not date and sleep with her and her 'girly dick' narrow minded.

fale = female

This is Alex Dummond. Alex is an intact male - no hormones, no surgery, nothing. Alex likes eyeliner and skirts. Alex identifies as a woman and a lesbian, using their penis to have sex with their female partner. Alex is on the trans advisory committee of stonewall so highly influential. Alex is excited to be broadening thr bandwidth of what "woman" means.

If Alex was in the showers in your gym, you would see a naked bearded man. But having Alex removed would be a hate crime. Alex could volunteer at a rape crisis centre or demand access to a women's refuge.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but "feminine penis" just blows my brain. It's taking the good fight too far, surely.

HermioneWeasley if Alex Dummond walked into the showers at my gym with the owners consent, I would get dressed quickly and hand my notice in to leave on the way out. That is a man.