To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

My daughter who is 9 would definitely not go on a school trip if she had to share with anyone with a penis. We had to check she had privacy to change alone as it is.

We divide by sex in this society and long may it continue.

s the only reason that boys and girls are segregated on residential trips to prevent boys raping girls? Or could it be that there are other reasons?!

There are loads of reasons. However, many of those reasons are irrelevant in a world where biological males and lesbian females are described as identical.

Even if the only difference between Jenny and her biologically female classmates is that she has a penis, Jenny's anatomy is still a factor which must be considered.

7Days
"Christ imagine an insecure14 yr old trying to voice her concerns over this issue! Women twice and three times her age are getting their arses handed to them and we don't have to sit beside each other for double french on monday morning."

There are many ways in school where someone could voice concerns over this with out being identified. So it isn't the same.

Dione have a look through the previous 597 messages, and tell me where I have suggested I think my Son is at risk of being raped. You are purposefully ignoring the blatantly obvious concerns I have, about mixed sex dorms for 14 year old teenagers.

Sorry, the comments about providing accessible facilities were in response to CallMeExhausted, not CeeCEeCee.

Surely boys and girls are segregated to give them privacy?
It's not respecting the privacy of teenage girls if they have to get changed in front of someone with a penis.

The little girl on dc's trip will be sharing with other girls, and the school said the dorms are single-sex. I don't object actually but thought it was interesting they used the term single-sex.

Interesting? I'd have my DD out of the school so fast her feet wouldn't touch the ground. Your DDs school is demonstrating either a institutional lack of understanding of the English language or a deliberate attempt to mislead parents. I fear it's the latter - trying to keep everyone happy and lying to parents in order to do so.

If I had the term "single-sex" in writing, and then discovered that the female dorm was shared by a biological male, I'd be taking the issue as far as I possibly could, even if that meant the school was shut down. It bloody deserves to be for that level of misrepresentation.

I'm not sure what's making me more , the OP's faux concern for something that has zero impact on her child's school trip experience or the hysteria from the usual suspects. There was no suggestion that Jenny's friends would be forced to share.

I'm not pro-trans by a long shot but the venom that gets spewed is grim.

I'm not pro-trans by a long shot but the venom that gets spewed is grim.

What venom?

What are the blatantly obvious concerns that Jenny poses for you OP? What do you think Jenny will do that none of the other children will?

Why is it, when legitimate questions and concerns are expressed, they are ignored in favour of accusations and repetition?
The OP has outlined her concerns numerous times on the thread. As have others. And discussion has led to questions about how certain safeguards can be maintained if this precedent is set.

If having Jenny with the girls isn't a problem, why have segregated rooms at all?

PrettyBrightFireflies

Your DDs school is demonstrating either a institutional lack of understanding of the English language or a deliberate attempt to mislead parents.

The school is abiding by the (badly writen and sparse) guidelines set down by the LEA/DFE/Government

PosieReturningParker Mon 07-Mar-16 17:47:32
My daughter who is 9 would definitely not go on a school trip if she had to share with anyone with a penis. We had to check she had privacy to change alone as it is.

I have had to do this with DD1 too. She began puberty aged 8, periods, developing breasts and pubic hair, and naturally she felt different and more self conscious as she was the only one (or she felt like it at least). She is now 10 and has a body far more mature than her brain yet is. She has mood swings, body awareness, and -worryingly- real crushes and attraction to her favourite singer, but also passing attractions to boys in her school year. Her hormones are in overdrive, before her brain is mature enough to process the possible consequences.
I wouldn't allow her to share a mixed sex room on a weeks holiday, hell no.

boney Have you got a link to those guidelines? Because if the DFEs guidance states that schools should tell parents one thing but do another, then there's an even more serious problem than I thought !

DioneTheDiabolist

Would you feel differently if Jenny was still Jack? Does a dress make that much difference?

VV... We're expecting periods any day. Breasts starting to grow since before she was seven, and the moods... she would give me a run for money and I get evil bitch queen from hell really bad PMT.

Does a dress make that much of a difference?

Posie, is that what "transgender" means to you, the desire to wear a dress?

In reality - if Jenny has been using the disabled toilet/changing, she should be in her own room - she isn't allowed to use the female changing/toilets yet, so I suppose it's the same for sleeping arrangements.

That's what the policy should say.

However, if they're looking into personal circumstances (which happens with many things at school, which slightly differ to policy) and the school have made Jenny's friends' parents aware and they've all consented, I don't see the issue. However, I don't understand how the bathroom arrangements will work.

Dione. If Jenny having a penis isn't an issue, what if she was still Jack and had no male friends and so wanted to stay with the girls.

What are the blatantly obvious concerns that Jenny poses for you OP? What do you think Jenny will do that none of the other children will?

It's not what she will do, it's what she has the capability to do. And no, this is not about rape, as you brought up (not me). This isn't about me saying Jenny 'cant control herself' or is going to force herself on a poor girl, I have not and would not presume that.

It boils down to mixed sex being totally unheard of for teens, for obvious reasons. However much she feels she's a girl, and identifies as one, her sex is male.

If you think it should not matter, mixing males and females for excursions, why don't we just abandon sex segregation in schools altogether, and have mixed sex dorms. What could possibly go wrong?

For the record I think sometimes trans is about something as simple as clothing, but kids aren't allowed just to want to wear a dress or play with dolls, they must be trans.

Where's the hysteria and spewed venom?

Part of the reason why so many posters raised the possibility of girls being scared to voice a dissenting opinion is that it's almost impossible to refer to biological facts without being labelled a TERF or bigot. Although the school will not breach confidentiality by discussing individual children with other parents, quite rightly, it ought to be possible to have a rational debate about policies which will affect us all without just being shouted down as hysterical.

By the way, some women view the term 'hysteria' as offensive, given its historical connotations with the forced surgery on and imprisonment of women.

PrettyBrightFireflies

equality act chapter 3

cornwall school guidance

they are really not much help.

If Jack had no friends and wanted to stay with the girls, I would be saying the same thing to the OP: It's none of your business. Where Jenny sleeps on this trip has no impact on her or her son.