To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

You mentioned your DD are not friends with her, i think this is a good thing tbh because your DD can learn about someone different to her and realise they are no different to her if that makes sense.

It's not transphobic to support division of children in bedrooms by SEX

I will apologise for questioning then, call :)
We may disagree on this point, but i imagine you also wince at people using 'you' as an example to prove a point that you disagree with?

If Jenny did feel the urge to have piv sex with one of the girls it certainly wouldn't take place in the dorm, same as if a boy/girl couple were going to. I presume they would find somewhere private / secret.

So I don't see how that sleeping arrangements are relevant at all.

"she is no different to a lesbian girl in your dd class, she just has a penis"

I apologise in advance as this is going to sound awfully rude, but I just don't understand how we've got to a point where someone can say something like this with a straight face.

I raised an eyebrow at that too, Puntastic. Ridiculous.

Homer you meant "someONE" there, I'm sure?

My dc's school has specifically stated in writing and at a meeting that the dorms used for her school trip will all be single-sex. One of the kids going is trans (mtf).

I do know though that all the parents of the girls she is sharing with have agreed.

Hang on. On the one hand, the school have stated in writing that the dorms will be segregated by sex I.e. By XX or XY chromosomes and presence of male or female reproductive organs.
On the other hand, a M2F trans (with XY chromosomes and male reproductive organs) will be sharing with others who have XX chromosomes and female reproductive organs.

How the hell is this primary school teaching sex ed if that is how they define single-sex? Do they include the trans-girl in the "girls only" sessions about periods? That's not going to confuse them, is it?!?

"she is no different to a lesbian girl in your dd class, she just has a penis"

Nobody has said that Jenny should not go on the trip. Of course Jenny should be able to go. But it is about making the same kinds of accommodations that the school are already doing with toilets and changing rooms.

Male biology is a fact. It actually is more than a penis that is affected by biology. And denying those facts helps no one.

I wonder if Jenny has had the HPV vaccine as her biology is so fucking irrelevant.

A few weeks ago there was a thread on here about 10 year old boys (males) changing in female changing rooms at the swimming pool. These boys are always accompanied by mother and usually siblings. The majority of posters on that thread thought it was out of order that this was happening and there were comments about their daughters dropping swimming etc etc. Lots of pearl clutching. However on this thread posters are saying that it is fine for a 14 year person with a penis to sleep in a room with girls who do not have a penis. I'm assuming they will all get changed in the same room too. Massive contradictions. But I still love MN!

she is no different to a lesbian girl in your dd class, she just has a penis.

Some people with penises use them as weapons. Just like some people who possess guns do.

The possession of guns is restricted in some places in order to prevent the small minority from hurting others. And the possession of a penis is restricted in some places in order to reduce the risk of the small minority from hurting others.

Unfortunately, because a penis is attached to a persons body, it means that the person it's attached to is restricted from some places, irrespective of how that person identifies and what their intent is.

Yeah, it's crap for those people who possess penises, cos they're being restricted due to the actions of a minority - but no different to people who shoot game, not being allowed to take their guns on holiday.

Well having a penis makes a person the opposite of being a female it makes them a male

Or has biology changed

Op you should ask the school

What about a gay male? Should be get to share with the girls??

People with make body parts sleep in one dorm. People with female body parts sleep in another dorm. People who don't feel able to sleep in either should pay extra for a single room.

I'm astounded that someone accusing others of transphobia can't see how horrendously misogynistic and homophobic saying a lesbian is the same as a male is. Jesus christ.

There is a lot of talk about literally erasing trans people's identities but including male people in the definition of lesbian is literally erasing the identity of lesbian which ceases to mean anything.
Homosexual = exclusively attracted to people of the same sex. Lesbian trans women are actually heterosexual

Should the OP be allowed to ask where any of the gay boys on the trip are sleeping in case they rape her son?

she is no different to a lesbian girl in your dd class, she just has a penis

Are you actually being serious?

Is the only reason that boys and girls are segregated on residential trips to prevent boys raping girls? Or could it be that there are other reasons?!

The little girl on dc's trip will be sharing with other girls, and the school said the dorms are single-sex. I don't object actually but thought it was interesting they used the term single-sex.

CeeCeeCee if all of the dorms will be single-sex, and a MTT child is going in with the girls, then either you or the school (and I hope it's you) have misunderstood what single-sex means. Single-sex does not mean 'all of the same self-declared gender'.

It's not helpful to conflate this issue with making activities more accessible to people with disabilities.Providing accessible arrangements for people with disabilities does not adversely affect other groups, because additional facilities are provided. If the only way to provide (for example) accessible toilets was to convert women's toilets to be completely open to all disabled people and women at the same time, with no privacy for either the person with a disability (of either sex) nor the women, while the men's toilets remained just as they were, then that might approach an equivalent situation.

Of course, accessible facilities for people with disabilities should be available everywhere they are required, and I'm sure there's still a long way to go before it's anywhere close to acceptable standards. However, we shouldn't use examples of poor policy in the past to guide us into making poor policy decisions now.