To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

Transitioning does not always involve taking medication. It may simply involve wearing clothes that are seen as the kind a particular sex wear.

*too

KatieT - eh? Where did I mention I was concerned about Jenny having sex with these girls ?

It's simply not appropriate that she shares a room with girls (or boys really for that matter). She, and her girlfriends are children, the school is in loco parentis and responsible for safe guarding all these kids.

I'm an atheist and as such, through socialisation, my kids are too. If I had decided that DS was unhappy being a boy because he liked wearing a dress at three by the time he was eleven he'd believe he was trans.

And boys can also say NO Katie They don't have to have sex with said girls (or boys) if they don't want to.
They can also take with them some protection 'just in case' they want to say YES. After all condoms are a MALE contraceptive. Maybe giving them back some responsibility for contraception is a good idea too.

cleaty that isn't transitioning fully, it just isn't - they've transitioned to identify as the other gender, but they haven't transitioned to that gender yet. Tbh, transitioning, to me, is t even about clothes - boys/girls can wear whatever the fuck they want and not have to be classed as 'transitioning'

Love I'm not saying the boys can't bring contraception. However, girls can too and have you never heard of a female condom? Condoms aren't just for men.

LoveBoursin, there is currently another thread running in the transgender section about a FTM going on a school trip this summer.

cleaty isn't that what we use to call cross dresing and being a traversite?
Are these people trans nowdays?

Katie - That is not the legal situation. Someone does not have to take any medication or have any surgery to be legally regarded as the sex they say they are.
I agree with you about clothes.

If Jennys parents have not agreed to it, i'd love to know what they make of the school chossing to room their son in with three girls?

(oh look, the parents must be "transing" their child - ie shorthand for agreeing with it. Shock horror, perhaps we could take back the personal attacks now, non?)

cleaty but someone who doesn't have the intention to ever want to be the other sex isn't transgender are they?

Love - Yes they are Trans if they say they are Trans.

There are a growing number of Trans people who have no surgery and take no medication. They are men who say they are women. If they say they are women, then legally they should be treated as women.

I think that if they want to dress up as a woman, that's not them wanting to be a woman. If they decide they'd actually like to be a woman and try and go ahead with it, then that's transgender. It's such a thin line.

Most transgender people are diagnosed with body dysphoria

OP, I would be livid if my child's school provided details of their sleeping arrangements to a random parent. I think it sounds creepy and more than a bit weird for a parent to want to know about the sleeping arrangements of an unrelated teenage child on a school trip.

Bring it up if you feel you must but I hope the school do what is right and protect their pupil from your strange pryings into this child's life.

I haven't even mentioned what country I am in, for God's sake.
The US, the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Gibraltar, Australia- a number of countries have English as their first language.

If anyone chooses to advance search me, to see if somewhere in my posting history I may have named the country I am in, then they themselves are the ones making the effort to hunt for clues to identify the pupil, to get offended on their behalf. And if anyone really wanted to go to all that effort, they would be the one risking the pupil being identified.

Which parent would deny their child to change tho? I've come across many trans children/parents, due to my work and parents often say "I'd rather a transitioned son/daughter, than a dead son/daughter"

In many cases it's "I'd rather have a transitioned son/daughter than a gay son/daughter", Katie. Since most GID children turn out to be gay, not trans, this push for transitioning children amounts to gay conversion therapy.

There are Trans people who do not have surgery or take medication.
About 75-80% of M2Fs do not have genital surgery.

The most common situation is taking hormones and having breast implants, and a penis. Or taking hormones, having a masectomy and a vulva. Most Trans people keep the genitals they were born with.

Legally they are all the sex they say they are.

Cleaty: Someone does not have to take any medication or have any surgery to be legally regarded as the sex they say they are - true, but they do have to have a Gender Reassignment Certificate, which requires a medical practitioner to sign it.

Until that happens legally the person is whatever they were at birth.

Just to throw this stat out there following annies post - 80% of children diagnosed as TG do not go on to transition at adulthood

cleaty so does it mean that a person with a fully functioning penis and happpy to use said penis for sexual gratification (ie have sex) can actually be a transwoman?
You mean they woudn't feel uncomfortable to have a penis (women do not have penis) or an ejaculation?

I think it sounds creepy and more than a bit weird for a parent to want to know about the sleeping arrangements of an unrelated teenage child on a school trip.

I think it sounds responsible, Dione, when the sleeping arrangements of that unrelated child introduce a whole new set of variables and risks into a trip.

They may legally be the sex they were born with in their birth certificate. But a Gender Recognition Certificate is not required for services to have to treat someone legally as the sex they say they are.

In deed legally if someone "lives as a man" at work and with their family, but "lives as a woman socially", then social venues should treat that person as a woman. "Living as a woman" in this context basically just means putting on a dress or a blouse.

Most MTT don't have surgery to remove their penis Katie

Under self declaration (which is the law Maria Miller wants to bring in) 'transitioning fully' means sending off a form saying "I am a woman"

Titchy do you mean that legally, someone isn't transitioning unless they are taking hormones or have had surgery?