To wonder, where will a Trans pupil sleep on my DS's Europe trip?

[VioletVaccine]

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (it's none of my business) whether she takes hormones or not, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I want to make a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip, 6 days 5 nights.
Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, will be sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she really be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she could be a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.

And similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage boys she isn't friends with?

Im hoping for some thoughts on how you'd handle this, and also, how to actually broach it with DS's school without being labelled a transphobic woman, a bigot, or any of the other terms that are so commonly used when you question the logistics of a situation like this?

Thank you.

Jenny is not a girl, so needs to be treated differently. She is different from a girl.

Or what biologicalcrayon said more eloquently.

noname Racial segregation is not a comparable position.
We do have sex segregation. If you feel we shouldn't then that is a different issue from this.

Neither is it reasonable to rely on asking the girls or their parents, as any wish to protects girls' privacy is all too easily steamrollered by accusations of bigotry (see thread for plenty of evidence)

As an aside, this, for me, is about the legitimacy or otherwise of defining women/ womanhood. A blanket acceptance of a boy's reclassification if himself as a girl is a problem imho because it sets a precedent.
Now, what happens when "alan" the geography teacher decides he is actually "anna" born into a male body? Is Anna to be the girls' chaperone when chaperone is needed?

And whilst nobody is accusing "Jenny" of havibg any intent to molest the girls in "her" company, let us not imagine that 14 yo boys do not pose a risk to girls in a way that girls do not.

Oh and yy to mistressdeecee and biologicalcrayon

Ultimately it's up to the school to make decisions about how best to safeguard the young people concerned, and the parents involved to decide whether they are happy to trust the school or not. If you aren't happy with the school's safeguarding, you withdraw your child from the trip.

FWIW in this situation I would go alone with whatever my daughter felt comfortable with.

*go along

I really think it should be up to adults to decide not the children involved.

Would those here suggest that we do away with sex segregation for everything.
Should 14 year old girls have to say yes to MTT nurses giving Pap smears

Should a Muslim woman have to remove her hijab in front of a mtf transwoman?

Try to have a little empathy for Jenny, instead of assuming the absolute worst of her.

www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/01/26/what_you_need_to_know_about_raising_a_transgender_child.html

I'm always amused by the fact that females are told that they shouldn't care make any assumptions about what it's like to be trans, when the whole basis of being an MTF trans person is assuming to know what it's like to be female.

We are not thinking the worst of Jenny, unless you see "boy" and "male" as insults, rather than biological terms.

This isn't about the other girls, Jenny's friends, being "forced" to share a room with Jenny - if they are sharing, they and their parents would have had to give consent. It's very different than an adult being in a position of authority over kids, or someone giving a medical exam ffs. This is a group of young teens who want to share a room during a school trip, because they're friends.

I would like to remind everyone that the OP doesn't actually know if Jenny is even sharing with others or not, and that the OP is just stirring "concerned" as their kid is going to be in the boys dorms anyway.

BiologicalCrayon, you know full well I am referring to remarks made by many implying or outright stating that Jenny is a rapist and a threat to the safety of her friends.

This is so simple - jenny is male. Unless the school is allowing other mixed sex groups on the basis that they're all friends, then Jenny should get her own room.

If the school is allowing other mixed sex group, I would think it's a bad idea, but jenny being with girls would be no different.

Jenny is not a girl.

OK TheGolden, point taken.

But I would like to ask you what the threat is to Jenny in the boy's dorm? Why can't Jenny stay there? Is it, perhaps, male violence? (which, BTW, girls are socialised to fear, but are now in the case of men and boys who claim to "be" women and girls, being asked to ignore that fear), which is not solved by bringing males into female dorms.

Looking at this thread I'd say it 50/50 posters who think trans people are the sex they identify with, and those saying that they aren't.

So how come the significant numbers of us who don't think that men are women, regardless of hormones or feelings, have to STFU? Why aren't our feelings and concerns valid and to be respected? Why are we automatically bigots, instead of having legitimate reasons why we might not want to share previously sex segregated space with males?

And don't get me started on the sad face "oh, I feel so sad reading X's comments" posts. Well, women being forced to share intimate space with intact men makes me more than sad, it makes me ragingly angry.

It is also the OPs business due to the high incidence of trans-ing in people with asd (dont belong? Ah yes, thats your gender. Here, we'll stick you in another box), as her son has asd.

Why can't Jenny sleep in the boys room with the other boys?

Why do the girls have to conform and accept?

TheGolden's link is terrifying (although I doubt that was her intention when she posted it). Changing a 4-year-old boy's birth certificate because he thinks he is a she - WTF

How do parents commit a small child to such long-term decisions? DS went through a phase saying "I'm a girl" around age 3-4 and yet we didn't change his birth certificate. He is now 6 and says "I am a cat", meowing around the house and rubbing his head against our legs. Funny enough, it hasn't occurred to me to graft a tail on his bum and feed him cat food from a bowl on the floor

"She is a girl like any other girl because she wears pink and has long hair" - no she isn't.

Hermione

In this instance you're not being asked to share a space with anyone. Surely the views of the girls and the parents are what matters?

This discussion has become so binary, it's a shame there is no room for any nuance of opinion. I do think there are genuine issues with self-declaration of gender identify (not least the potential for this to be exploited by predatory men), but individual situations need to be considered on their merits, especially when minors are involved. In this case, given that the school has shown itself to be sensitive and pragmatic, as a parent I'd be inclined to trust the decisions reached by the trip organisers, who will be much more familiar with the details of the case. With the proviso that, at 14, my teenager's personal choice would be the deciding factor.

"I'm gonna show just how 'transphobic' you are by throwing a misogynistic insult at you"

"at 14, my teenager's personal choice would be the deciding factor."

So if your DD choose to stay in a room with her good friends who are boys, that is what would happen?

If not, why not?

Chose, even.