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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

625 replies

HonestQuestion · 05/03/2016 06:59

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready... Grin

OP posts:
molyholy · 05/03/2016 08:35

Not rtft but just the title has made me want to respond. With a big fat fucking hahahahaha. Please OP report back when you have had a child or two Grin

53rdAndBird · 05/03/2016 08:35

Life does not have to revolve around the children, and nor should it.

So what's the flip side of this?

"Life should revolve around the adults, children can just lump it" - unreasonable.

"There should be a balance between what the children need/like and what the adults need/like" - much more reasonable! But bear in mind that since you don't really know much about what children of any age need/like - and you definitely don't know what your future children will need/like - you maybe can't plan for this as well as you imagine.

MrsUnderwood · 05/03/2016 08:36

Yeeeah good luck with that, OP.

RabbitSaysWoof · 05/03/2016 08:37

I don't think your plan is so un realistic when you have a 5 and up, I think a lot of your plan hinges on other children the same age being around.
My child doesn't need me so much for most of the day and never really has, so my in put and playing with him is mostly optional and a bonus, BUT when I am with friends he turns into another kid entirely, suddenly he wants me, needs me, forgets how to play on he's own. The kid can pull it out of the bag for an audience I don't know where he gets it from but it only happens around other people. My friends would probably say about him that you think of your friends kids.
My child's best days with me when we are in company are when he has someone to play with otherwise he is well aware that it's social time and he has no one to be sociable with. Maybe your friends lives are not as child centred as you think, maybe their dc don't adjust to being ignored while adults are socialising as well as pottering off when their parents are doing boring things.
I also had a childhood like you describe and I still feel that my parents had little interest in me and I find it a struggle to accept their attention now, I don't like visiting them, I ask why they want to know stuff when they take an interest in my life, I feel they are being noses because they were never interested when I needed them to be. I rarely see them and I never miss them or wonder about them.
I remember my dad arriving home and turning my program's over even if I was half way through watching something to put news or sport in, I remember him telling me to shush because he was trying to hear the tv, I remember thinking he was a rude prick and now as an adult I still think he was a rude prick. Most children cant relate to adult things, especially as people say world events now days, so if a parents reaches down to try to enjoy a kid thing that's just bonding I make sure I fake an interest in thomas the poxy tank engine because I want my kid to think I enjoy he's company. We need to laugh together sometimes.
Wrt dc dictating evenings and mealtimes I have a kid who has always slept through from 7 and eaten what he's given, i have nothing but sympathy for my friends who are battling with these things.

RubyRoseViolet · 05/03/2016 08:38

Yes and no Op. I agree with some of your ideas but not all. The thing is you have NO idea what your children will be like or how you will both actually feel once they come along.

BathtimeFunkster · 05/03/2016 08:38

At this point, you OP will be saying "oh yes it will, I will still want to do blah blah"

Thank you!

You've reminded me of what this thread reminds me of!

When I was about 5 I decided that adults were all daft.

That they would go to a park and not even bother going on the slides!

Like they were dead inside. They had lost all sense of joy and fun.

"I will never be like that" I said to my 5 year old self. "I will always find going on slides and playing just as fun as I do now." 😂😂😂😂

"I will never want to do boring things like read the paper and sit around after Sunday lunch talking and drinking wine." 😂😂😂😂😂

It didn't quite work out for my 5 year old self.

Although I do quite enjoy going on slides occasionally.

Deletetheheat · 05/03/2016 08:38

It was me who brought up birth plans, just as an example of someone trying to plan and prepare for something as huge as childbirth and realising you can't.

For eg I had a similar (bloody awful) birth with my dc1 as two other mothers I know did. For me it was far less traumatic as I had no expectations. For them - and I'm not gloating, these are beloved friends of mine - it was traumatic to the point of depression for months afterwards because they didn't have the natural birth they wanted. They felt like failures.

donajimena · 05/03/2016 08:38

I'm with you OP to an extent. As small children I socialised with other parents around their houses. I used to watch my tv whilst they played. It was fairly easy when they were small. Now they are 10 &:12 its impossible. They are too young to leave but they don't want to tag along to friends houses or go out to dinner with mum.
I'm far more restricted now than I was when they were youngsters

Toraleistripe · 05/03/2016 08:38

Echo what others say.....good luck with that.

I thought exactly the same. However I actually like to spend time with my children so don't mind my life changing. You will probably find you want to do this too. I am an older mum though and so over the socialising every night thing. We have no relatives near to babysit and are a bit skint so no money to justify childcare just for a night out.

When they were babies we just wanted any spare time to sleep! Now they are older we just do our eating out earlier. You might find you gravitate to other parents anyway. They will empathise and also want to discuss the child related stuff that is boring to non parents.

Me and DH are getting more space for ourselves now the DCs are older but when they were babies we just weren't bothered. Babies take over you whole life. A cliche I know but so true.

lljkk · 05/03/2016 08:39

What OP wrote doesn't even make sense.

.... The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. ...The TV is always switched to children's channels

So which is it? The parents are constantly abuzz running activities & playing with the kids, or the kids & family are plonked in front of telly for hours?

...always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children^

So, er, your friends like their children, want to talk about their children they like, want to do things for the people they care about, and make other people (not themselves) important in their lives. Fancy that... caring about other people more than yourself or own interests. Tsk Tsk, how terrible. (??)

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie ... my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!...

So which is it? Their kids are tucked into bed whinging for England or sitting up all evening preventing an adult from watching any other programmes?

(pssst: many families solve TV conflict by having > 1 telly in the house. Revolutionary, I know...)

I sat up until 11pm watching Benny Hill with my dad when I was about 6-7yo. I guess what was adult enough for OP.

merseyside · 05/03/2016 08:39

The "coolest" parents are the ones prepared to be flexible and roll with the punches.

Not the ones who go into it with fixed ideas of how their approach is going to be better than anyone else's.

HPsauciness · 05/03/2016 08:40

As lots of people said, there is a compromise between extreme helicoptering and ignoring/neglecting your children, and most people aim for the middle funnily enough. Lots of things in the 'benign neglect' school of parenting have fallen out of practice, such as putting your children in the car, driving them to the pub and going in for the evening leaving them in the car park, or allowing them to roam around outside age 7/8 all day, home at 6. There are things that used to happen that are now considered genuinely neglectful like leaving small children home alone.

Presuming you are not trying to resurrect the 1970's school of parenting (which included a lot of benign neglect, but then coupled with extreme discipline of being hit, often with belts/implements to keep control) I don't think it's a bad thing to keep an eye on everyone's needs in the family when you parent. I do sometimes think there is a tendency now to think that mothers in particular should be all-sacrificing, sacrificing of their time, sleep and general identity to their children, and I know many of my female friends have struggled at various points (e.g. never go out by themselves as they are the 'carer' in the household and husband 'can't' look after the children, no sense of direction/identity in their own lives even though children in school, never have time to socialize as themselves) when it would have been ok to have put their own needs into the family pot of needs. So, I know I did sleep training for example, as I needed to work and to balance my mental health, after I crashed the car through sleep-deprivation, and I think it was fine to put my own needs first in that situation.

I also think there's a huge gender thing going on here, as someone says, often a couple plan for nothing to change, the woman's (who gives births, may breastfeed, may be on mat leave) life changes irrevocably and not always for the better, and the man's doesn't (often based on a spurious calculation that 'he earns more' rather than again, a consideration of the wellbeing of the whole family). Be careful this isn't you.

I'd also say that children's needs change enormously, they don't stay little for that long, so the period of everything feeling quite child-oriented in the house (toys, TV) is short. Once they are pre-teens and teens, then going out in the evening (with a babysitter), watching the movies you like in the evening, having your own career and life and identity is completely doable. However, something also happens to counter this push-back, which is that you have got to know your own children, and like them as people. So, the desire to watch a new movie with your partner becomes the desire to share it as a family. You don't necessarily shut up your 13 year old when they speak, as you realize they are more interesting and sensible than many of the 'adults' you know. I find my children's friends interesting and talk with them a lot.

In short, you stop thinking in terms of 'us' and 'them' which is at the heart of your current stance.

IcingandSlicing · 05/03/2016 08:42

Katenka good for you to be able in labour to listen and process information.
Well, I wasn't. First pregnancy resulted in damaging myself. Second time learned my lesson, was more informed and things were much much better. Beyond comparison.

JizzyStradlin · 05/03/2016 08:42

If you want to be able to talk to your friends without being bothered by the kids, why on earth would you object to Cbeebies? You should ask them to switch it on as soon as you get there! That is your absolute best chance of something resembling an uninterrupted conversation.

I'm rather amused by the juxtaposition of a no screens attitude and a desire to have, basically, children who spend a fair amount of time not bothering you, especially when you're socialising. You'll find the easiest way to achieve the latter is to employ the former. It'll be interesting to see which you decide to prioritise. Because believe me, when you have children who aren't old enough to be able to watch the news and remember learning about the world (you clearly weren't referring to under 5s with that example) unless you get an unusually slothful and sedate one, it'll be one or the other.

LaContessaDiPlump · 05/03/2016 08:43

I'mm not sure why anyone imagined someone idiotic enough to think children are like handbags you choose to match your outfit...... I don't believe the op does think that though; I think she's expressed her wish that her to-be DC not be entirely like the reality she observes everyday. Unrealistic by definition (!), but not totally U.

I'm sorry you had a crappy birth experience Bathtime. Mine were relatively straightforward (apart from the surgery right afterwards to repair the damage, thanks DS1 Hmm) but still took ages to mentally grasp. I can't imagine how much harder it gets when things don't go at least roughly to plan.

jessplussomeonenew · 05/03/2016 08:43

OP, what are your reasons for wanting to have children? One of my reasons for wanting kids was so that I could spend time having fun with them - so it would be unreasonable for me to complain about having to do just that.

I agree with the points others have made about it depending on age and temperament - babies and toddlers are highly dependent on us, so meting their emotional and physical needs is really intense. I think investing in nurturing a secure and confident child is vital even though it's demanding. But they grow up so quickly! And as they grow up things change; my 18mo will happily play on his own with only occasional input from me, but I wouldn't leave him in the evening yet as he's not good at getting to sleep without us. I still aspire to having a more independent life in the future, but for now that's what being a good parent to my particular child seems to require.

One final thought - I find that the days when I pay attention and spend my time generously with my son are far more fun and rewarding than the days I spend trying to get on with other stuff with a toddler around. Going with the flow changes your life, but it has amazing rewards.

SausageSmuggler · 05/03/2016 08:44

Having re-read your OP I have a couple of thoughts.
The likelihood is that your friends want to chat and catch up as much as you. The kids TV was probably on in an attempt to get them to sit still for 5 minutes so you could talk.

Also, and I realise this is going to sound harsh but it's not meant to, when you see your friends do you offer to help with their DC's or sit back while their parents get more and more frazzled? Fortunately for us our friends accept we're all a unit and are fine with reading the kids a story or looking at DS's Lego models (again).

Mominatrix · 05/03/2016 08:44

Of course you can parent the way you would like to. If you have the means, you can outsource all the boring bits of parenting. You can have the children with you for the bits you find interesting than hand them off when they get too tiresome. Been done for centuries.

RaptorsCantPlayPoker · 05/03/2016 08:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TattieHowkerz · 05/03/2016 08:44

Lol.

Anyway, it is fair enough to have these aspirations, just be prepared to be flexible. Children aren't robots that can power down when you need peace and quiet, time for adult chat, nor do they have a sleep function activated when you want to continue partying or whatever. They are individuals, you can't predict what will and won't work. It isn't just about parenting style, though I agree with the idea that kids should learn to wait, not always have what they want etc, but they just aren't capable of taking that on when they are small! My 4 year old is getting there, just.

Children are developmentally designed to want interaction, and most will persist til they get it! Also, when you have your own child biology won't easily let you ignore them. You might think, "I'll just ignore the tears and the cries of "Mumma, Mumma I neeeeeeed you, they need to learn", but most emotionally healthy people can't switch off so easily from their kids' emotions. The bond you have with your child actually makes them your focus, most parents may complain at times but do really want to have their kids at the centre of their life. Until you experience it you can't truly understand it, it really is a profound change, so come back and let us know how you get on Grin

I remember my DP sitting on the sofa with me when I was 8 months pregnant, saying "I don't suppose our lives are going to change all that much". Well, they have. And we couldn't be happier about it Smile

seaweed123 · 05/03/2016 08:44

I think there are two different things you are talking about.

My life does not revolve around my DC in the sense that my hobbies are still important to me. I have other important relationships. I still enjoy couple time with DH, etc, etc.

But a trip out for lunch, or a holiday or a day at the park would revolve around DC. Doing otherwise would be utter misery for everyone.

LaurieFairyCake · 05/03/2016 08:45

Children shouldn't be watching the news. It's not suitable viewing.

Everything else, you'll find your own way

HeteronormativeHaybales · 05/03/2016 08:45

My births:
No. 1: 48 miserable hours of on-and-off contractions to get to 3cm, epidural, sudden acceleration followed by stalling and cascade of intervention, ds1 ventoused out with episiotomy, moderate blood loss, I passed out briefly afterwards.
No. 2: lovely manageable contractions, I took a bus to hospital (!), shock discovery on arrival that I was 9cm, ds2 ventoused out half an hour later with the cord twice round his neck.
No. 3: overdue, induced, few hours of nothing much to get to 2cm, 20 minutes and some bloody awful pain later dd fell out before the doctor who'd come running in in response to my howls could get her gloves on.

None of those were amenable to a 'plan' in the end, but it helped in each situation to know what I wanted and didn't. With ds1 I knew I wanted to avoid CS if possible so when things stalled we went for syntocin and eventually ventouse. With Nos. 2 and 3 I knew - drawing on my experience with No. 1 - I wanted to keep upright as much as possible during labour, which probably encouraged the precipitous endings but made the first phase easier. So while 'plan' might be a bit of a misnomer, passively approaching birth with a willingness to hand over entirely to the 'experts' won't make their or your job easier.

53rdAndBird · 05/03/2016 08:46

When we decided to reproduce I had lots of ideas about how I would parent. I had watched LOTS of Supernanny, so, you know, clearly I knew my stuff. I was also convinced that pregnancy wasn't going to slow me down. It's not an illness! I'll still do all my own things!

Then I had a truly shit pregnancy, which changed everything, and by the time the baby was born thought "fuck it, I clearly know nothing, I'll just go with whatever works."

Strongly recommend this as a parenting philosophy - it's worked out pretty well Grin

Caprinihahahaha · 05/03/2016 08:46

I don't think it's a problem at all to have a vision of how you want to parent. I think it's good to contemplate these things.
The only problem is that you are trying to base your choices on a whole swathe of information which you don't possess.

Having a child will change you. Of course it will.
I suppose there are a few who don't change but I don't see that as a good thing - the change I experienced was one of overwhelming love and an almost burdensome sense of responsibility for this tiny vulnerable person.
If I hadn't felt those things that would have perhaps made it easy to be completely in control of setting dispassionate goals about playing on their own etc but again, I'm not sure that's a good thing.
You are also assuming that the things that you have witnessed in other parents which you view as bad do not usually start as a deliberate choice by a parent. So, for example, my first son ended up with a very fussy sleep regime. I was always going to be a calm parent who just checked everything was ok and then left the child to settle itself.
Unfortunately DS1 struggled with breast feeding and had reflux. So I ended up anxious that his crying wasn't sleepy crying but pre vomit pain. So I over comforted him (if there is such a thing) and he quickly needed that as a routine. Funnily enough with DS2 and DD they settled easily and were great sleeper - life sometimes creates problems that create 'bad' habits.

The reason your post has irritated some is because you don't understand and seem to believe that these other parents have made poor choices and so you kind of are judging them. While I too look at a few parents and think 'what the holy hell are you doing' I do have the experience that teaches me that parents rarely volunteer to parent in a way that creates more work.

If their parenting looks overwhelming to you, maybe it is? But maybe some of those choices started when they held their child, felt an overwhelming love and that fear that sits alongside it and ended up doing stuff they never planned.

We all want to be great parents. We all love our children. Maybe a little humility in recognising that other are too, just parenting in the best way they know rather than advertise that tinge of contempt you seem to feel - based on zero experience.

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