To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

[HonestQuestion]

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready...

If you don't want to adapt your life to children, then have you thought that you might be better not to have them? I don't have children, and the reason for that is that I like my life the way it is.

Children need time with their parents. They need to play, as it is essential to their development. They need a sleep routine, and keeping them up while you go to a party is selfish. They can't be left on their own. When you come home from work and they've been in nursery for the past 10 hours, they NEED time with their parents so they grow up knowing they are loved and wanted. If you aren't prepared to consider their needs, then don't have them. Of course, that's not to say they should be allowed to be brats - strict bedtimes benefit children AND parents, as the parents can then have adult time.

My sister is a midwife and warned me not to over plan the birth! She said so many women are left distraught and feeling like failures because their birth doesn't go to plan and at the end of the day the only thing that really matters is mum and baby are both ok.

We all want to be great parents. We all love our children. Maybe a little humility in recognising that other are too, just parenting in the best way they know rather than advertise that tinge of contempt you seem to feel - based on zero experience.

^^ This.

thanks LaContessa :)

I didn't even have a particularly terrible experience. Just the standard "nobody's listening" service, finally upgraded to "let's cut her open and pull the baby out".

I get what you are saying OP . Obviously life changes when you have a child but it doesn't have to completely revolve around your children. You don't have to stop doing all the things you used to do.

Obviously it depends on circumstances. We made sure when we started a family that we were close to grandparents so they could help us out. Dh will have dd so I can meet friends, and I look after her when he goes away with the lads. Gp's have her when we go away for a weekend together. The vast majority of the time we are together as a little family, pottering at home, or going out for lunch. Often our friends have children too so we all lunch together children play, we chat.

We didn't go out late in the evening because she wasn't great at being out of routine. So that went on the back burner until she was a bit older.

For me it's a balance and compromise. I won't spend my weekends running about after DD's needs, dashing her to every activity, because we are a family, every member of the family is just as important as the others, she's not the sole focus. But we do adapt and alter some of the things we do so they are more appropriate for her. I think it's about finding the middle ground which is comfy and workable for you, and remembering that what's workable for you, may not be for someone else. Our kids, lives, needs and our wants are all different, that's what makes life interesting

If you feel this way then i suggest you don't have children or atleast just have one DC. The challenges are never ending especally when a parent desperately wants there DC to settle for the night as they are at work in the morning.

Playing with them and interacting with them is how they form close bonds. Its not about being their best friend but establishing and helping them develop as an individual they are going to be as an adult.

The parents you speak about will have young DCs they wont always been young and will learn to amuse themselves as they get older. Its such a shock being a parent you are restricted you can't go out and do as you please, lie ins are a thing of the past god even taking a bath on your own!

I agree with some of the stuff you mentioned but you never know what kind of parent you will be until you have your own children.

Your OP reminds me of my highly organised, extremely efficient, don't take any shit, high flyer friend. She used to say things like that before having children, she also said that she was going to continue with her life in the same way after the baby arrived, that is what babysitters were for.

So baby was born, she then spends three weeks in tears and considers leaving her job as she cannot bring herself to leave DD in nursery.

She doesn't allow anyone but her mother to babysit which is a bummer because the mum lives in another country (she is terrified about sexual abuse).

All her life is all about the DD, she doesn't have any hobbies anymore because she spends the time fostering her child's (she even took the baby to baby ballet and many other classes when she was not even 18m old).

She has ended friendships because she doesn't like the way their children interact with hers. TBH I have never seen such an entitled bully girl as hers, it is a constant game of Simon says. But apparently, it is always the other children that are at fault.

Last week she sent me the pictures of the DD's birthday, as many little girls she got a princess party, all her little friends are wearing princess gowns. My friend and his DD are dressed as Snow White, her husband was wearing a prince costume with all the trimmings. She wants to use the photo for their Christmas card.

I do really think they are absolutely mad, but to their credit, they have apologised for their pre children views, many many times.

I wonder how many posters on this thread have had to bat their offspring away to get their point written and read the thread!

Oh bless you OP. I hope you have lots of lovely children in your life and please report back in a few years.

OP - I agree with you entirely - and I actually have children , 8 of them to be precise

I know exactly what you are talking about. It's this obsessive need by parents to be constantly 'fussing' and 'analysing' their dcs every need. When in fact these are mostly whims not needs.

I made this mistake in my first marriage. Everything was about the children, I had no time for my husband he had no time for me, we were both too busy organising our lives around what perceived to be their needs. We didn't go out as a couple, one stayed home the other went out..we drifted apart and eventually got divorced.

My second marriage is ALL about us as a couple. That's where the focus is and from that comes stability. 2 of his older teens live with us and 3 of mine. His younger two visit EOW. (Eldest is now married) When they were all younger, it was imperative to have rules and boundaries and LOTS of couple time, it wouldn't have worked without.

Letting them get on with amusing themselves promotes independence. Having set chores allows them to have responsibilities. Above all, bedtime is bedtime ! They were not to get up in the evening unless the house is on fire ! That was 'our' time. We couldn't afford to go away together in the early years, so evenings were/are precious

It can work, this doesn't mean that our children didn't do sports clubs/music lessons/ acting clubs/art camps/brownies/guides/scouts etc. It just meant that they had to take a lot of the responsibility for arranging transport with us as they grew older, and wanted to do more. They were all bus savvy by the age of 10/11 (in preparation for secondary school) They all did their own washing/ironing by year 7. (I work full time as does their dad so this chore was divided by 7 rather than dumped on one already overworked mother..

TV time is a compromise. Now they are all late teens (except the non resident Dsc - Young teens) They rarely want to watch TV, however when younger the TV was put on during the day if somebody particularly wanted to watch something, not used as 'wallpaper'.. As they got older they got there own TVs /Laptops so never an issue.

...and yes ! Couldn't agree more about conversation . My children are endlessly fascinating to me/my DH/my parents - less so to the rest of the world. I do not want to go out and spend the whole time talking about how fabulous 'little Johnny' is , especially when it gets into the competitive bragging territory.. Yawn..I have a brain, an interesting job and a lot to say beyond childcare..

That said, my DCs are all lovely, loving and completely fabulous in every possible way. They are all here today to celebrate MD tomorrow. Not because they have to but because they want to..

I think you're getting a rough time op. None of us quite comprehended the shift parenthood often necessitates and i don't think you're being smug, you just have no idea and why would you? Good luck to you whatever your decision.

MeMySonandI

That's hilarious
I know a woman like that too. She's also very funny about her pre baby views.

Ha! I was like you OP before I had my two children, I look back with a hollow laugh. Please do let us know how things are working out in a couple of years once you've had one or two. Best of luck.

Good luck, chum. You'll fucking need it.

Oh dear, OP.

My kids were never going to watch teletubbies as it was bilge. Only when my toddler (who turned out later to have ASD) stopped screaming for the 20 mins it lasted on it went. They saved my sanity.

My kids were going to learn to amuse themselves - only DS2 can never be left to his own devices even in his own room even now at the age of 10 due to his ADHD he needs constant supervision at all times to prevent harm to himself or others.

Life is what happens to you when you're busy making plans.

It'd be far easier on anyone mentally to have no expectations, I feel.

you just have no idea and why would you?

Well quite.

And why would you imagine that you have such wonderful ideas while you have zero experience of any of it?

Isn't it more usual for people to understand that they know nothing useful about things they have never done and might never do?

I did some of what you said but do you know what stopped it, school! Bloody school, with their early starts and homework!

But I love/loved the company of mine more than anyone else in this world. We didn't have any childcare So I didn't leave them to go to a concert, they came, they came to a restaurant if we wanted to go. Friends parties, they came.
They soon learnt what's acceptable
We also did plenty of childcentric stuff too, as a lot of it I enjoyed too!
But they weren't children who needed routine so we were lucky we could do that. More than one child is more tricky to do that as you have more personalities and needs to consider.

As for tv

Peppa pig and Ben & holly are bloody brilliantly written tv comedy. CBBC also has some pretty fantastic tv that's good for adults too. So don't knock it as senseless drivel.

I think there are parents who are completely absorbed by their children's lives. But tbh I do think a lot of that is fear too.
Parents now feel responsible for every aspect of their children's lives in a way they weren't decades ago.
When I was a child we were just allowed to play out. If I had been hit by a car my parents would have received overwhelming sympathy. Now the immediate reaction would be 'where was her mother?' (Note - not where was her father /parents)
Our children have to be bright, slim, attractive and popular or we are bad parents.
It's not surprising is it, that some parents lack the confidence to stand further back?

I know one family where the mum is bessies with her children. It's a car crash and I sorta watch through laced fingers or listen with fist stuffed in mouth.

The rest are all cool wid parenting

I am enjoying the lessons in parenting from those who don't have any children

As well as the lessons in " let them be independent " from those who have teenagers

And the boasts of " how we are not child focussed " from the parents of one NT child

Soon we'll have the " my children travel everywhere my public transport " from people who live in big cities.

and the competitive child birth people

I think all families are different. For some, having DCs in a routine and 'adult time' once DCs are asleep is really important. For others, DCs just fit into life as it was before. My assumption is that families do what works for them.

In our case, we made very few changes because we had DCs and never assumed that we would need to. We both worked from when they were a few weeks old and we didn't have time or inclination to do any active 'parenting'. We didn't do bed times or any sort of routine and and, if we went out, DCs came, even if they fell asleep and were carried to bed. They slept with us, ate when we ate (even if it was 9pm) and were included in everything we did outside work. We had zero child free 'adult time (apart from when we were at work) but didn't want any. It worked for us, but, propbably wouldn't for a SAHP.

I do know parents who do things very differently, spending hours over bedtime routines and only doing things that fit in with DCs routines. I don't 'get' it as it seems far too much effort, but it clearly works for them.

Good luck ...

I get what you're saying and I think it is important to not lose yourself totally. It's also important to keep yourself strong as a couple because that's the foundation you've built the family on.

But babies are overwhelming - there's just no relaxing or free time with a tiny baby (unless you've got one of those rare angelic ones) my son is five months old and it's exhausting- he rarely sleeps.

As they get older it's certainly good to encourage the ability to play by themselves sometimes and it's very good to have a set bedtime. But it's highly unlikely you'll be able to maintain your previous lifestyle- and frankly you need to spend time with kids.

I've certainly changed loads of my preconceived ideas - the reality of parenting is like that. Co sleeping for example. I was dead against but actually now I see it can be a boon sometimes. Other things I've stuck to (set bedtime)

You'll get the child you get. They may be amazingly pliant. They may be strong willed (mine was yelling the local language word for no! At ten weeks.) They will hopefully be healthy but they may also have physical issues or neurological issues that mean your life will change dramatically.

There's no harm in having ideas beforehand but stay flexible. Most of us just do what works at the time ;)

Capri great post

Agree about the risk/responsibility thing

If CBeebies enables me to to talk to my friends for a bit then so be it. Or have a shower or go to the toilet. Yes, children follow you to the toilet and ask hundreds of questions.

Good luck op, come back in two years and let us know how it's going.

YANBU to some extent. You will have to do some adapting, but it isn't necessary to let DCs rule the roost. You just need to set boundaries, work out a good but flexible sleep routine when they are old enough and use common sense. There will be times when your DCs need a lot of you, but they do need to learn to play independently, handle boredom and sleep when it is bedtime. You will have less me time, but not none at all.