To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

[HonestQuestion]

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready...

i just think that your post reads as the thoughts of someone who hasn't been a parent.

if that is what you think and plan then good for you! i hope it all works out as planned.

We are the same as LittleLion and other PPs. Our lives have changed immeasurably since having children, but there are some elements that we have continued (almost) as they were.

We go to fewer concerts and films - babysitters and ticket prices mean they are more of a treat than they used to be. We do still go out for dinners, but we eat a little earlier if DD is with us. We also choose the restaurant with both her and us in mind, rather than just us. She doesn't like sushi, for example.

We still go to places that are interesting for us when on holiday, we just balance that with plenty of beach and playing time. Everyone gets a fun holiday that way.

She knows how to play independently but we do entertain her - both while we're out and about and at home. Not all the time, but it's neither safe nor kind to ignore your child in order to catch up with friends/television. I still read the paper, but don't watch the news as much when she's around - it would scare her and she has enough nightmares as it is. Adult TV shows are on after bedtime. I do still have radio 2 on in the car.

We're lucky in that she's pretty flexible and knows how to behave in restaurants, she also understands the concept that everybody gets to choose a fun thing to do, and that we respect others' choices. We're unlucky in that bedtimes were very difficult until she was 3, meaning that babysitters who could handle them were few and far between. She would also refuse the bottle, so time away before she quit BFing was impossible (comes back to not being cruel again). We went away for a short break when she was 14m, and have done others since. Again, we're lucky she will do this happily and that we have family willing to have her.

The birth plan is entirely irrelevant. Personally I don't get people who have very detailed birth plans.

Like parenting, you can't plan a birth to be an exact science.

I would crack on with your idea.

I used to be a nanny - a really good one if I do say so myself, so when I became unexpectedly single when I was pregnant (he did a runner!) the one thing I kept telling myself was that I would be okay when the baby arrived, that was the one thing I felt I could handle and that my life would go back to familiar normal again.

Well, yes.... That was total bollocks on my part!

I was leaking from seemingly every orifice, I was so knackered I forgot my own name. Genuinely, forgot my own name. I cried constantly. I couldn't work out how to have a shower, so I would put it off until I stank (I know, yuck right?!) i once ran the length of a shopping centre with my crying baby to get to the baby feeding room in m&s - leaving my abandoned shopping by the till with a bewildered (childless) friend, because I didn't have the confidence yet to just whip out my boob.

It wasn't that I revolved around nap times for ds sake as much as my own - meet someone for a coffee at nap time or grab an hours sleep myself? There was no contest. Ds woke every 2 hours until he was 2 years old. My life revolved around survival, because I was hanging on by a thread. Going to dinner parties and wheeling the baby home in a pram afterwards? Total fantasy in my life.... And I had 10 years experience as a nanny specialising in new borns / night training and multiple births.

I had an extreme experience I think, but you just don't know how you will feel until you are in that situation, and the kindest thing you can do for yourself is to go with the flow and not build unrealistic expectations up.

Good luck!

(Ps Ds is nearly 4 now and life is much more normal - Id still rather sit on the sofa post 7pm bedtime then goto a dinner party though!)

And at three years old DD rides horses, skis and ice skates because I love it and she comes along with me.

My compromise is that I can't expect to ski hard with a three year old - so she fits in BUT I make sure we don't do too much. So what used to be a hard day on the mountain is now a bit of skiing, lots of hot chocolate and a generally easier pace. And guess what - I enjoy it too!

Oh I met a baby who wasn't allowed to cry once. The mother was happy to leave ds3 screaming the place down while I made her a cup of tea though (I couldn't hear the screaming)

Ganoush funny you should say that as I have already put together a listening schedule for while HonestBaby is in the womb. During the first trimester it will be Beethoven. The second trimester I will be playing the complete works of Shakespeare and in the final three months I shall be playing Teach Yourself Mandarin CDs for two hours every evening.

HonestQuestion people are reacting like that to your birthplan because from what you've written it looks like the staff will do the work of giving birth - it's not like that. You'll be shocked to find out that younhave to do the whole work yourself. So this idea - I trust you - to people who will let you in the room on your own devices while they go and watch the next episode of The Voice is a bit strange.
You can always chose private midwife or a Cesarian - that is OK.

Actually, OP, I don't think you're being that U. I have some friends like yours, and yes, that's just ridiculous. One set of friends really annoys me - we live on different continents, so see each other once a year max. And it turns out, despite the fact that we're staying in the same town as them for two weeks, there's only one evening they can possibly meet up due to the kids schedule and then when we come over we're left to our own devices as they deal with the kids except for maybe 30 min adult conversation. I have an almost-4yo, and if friends have come halfway across the world to visit, yeah, I'd interept her nighttime routine a bit for it. (Actually - don't even have to come halfway across the world - a friend from just elsewhere in Europe came over this week, and we kept DD up late to go out to dinner and bring friend to the train).

Also, don't listen too strongly to the 'everything will change'. I was sort of like you, OP, in my beliefs. Except I didn't voice them for fear of the backlash :) And I listened carefully and believed everything everyone said. I didn't know what would change, but I believed strongly something mysterious would happen, and it would somehow turn me into a 'parent', that had a different outlook and different priorities and different behaviour, and so on. Except it didn't - and this has been part of what has created what I've now identified on another thread as 'imposter syndrome' about motherhood. I almost feel like I can't comment on this thread as a parent, since I'm not really one (but I do have a child). But the lack of change in my outlook contributed strongly to this feeling.

Although, that said, my DD was nearly 3yo before I left her overnight. Yet I had no reason to beforehand. I also ended up doing something similar to 'attachment parenting', which I think is often characterised here as the 'mummy martyr' thing. Except for us it wasn't - it was what enabled us to continue life basically as before. (It doesn't mean child must be physically attached to you!) I was also left permanently physically disabled by pregnancy, but that really doesn't have to do with kids! There are things I can't do now as it tends to dislocate my pelvis, which annoys me (oh, that I can't do them - dislocating one's pelvis is a bit more than annoying :) ), but it's not like that's an active choice I can do much about.

So I do think you can have kids and remain basically the same person, and find the same things interesting. There are some practical considerations (ranging from you can't walk anymore to loss of spontaneity due to needing to think ahead to plan for childcare), but that doesn't mean you will change.

mersey my kids have the same hobby as me it's perfect! I love it. We do classes together or one night a week dd does her class and then has her dinner and watches while I do mine straight after. Works perfectly!

You also haven't taken into account how you perhaps just won't want to do things same as before. Perhaps because you are knackered or pre children stuff just doesn't hold the same appeal.

At this point, you OP will be saying "oh yes it will, I will still want to do blah blah" but don't under estimate how your whole life will change and you just do not know how you will feel.

My friends had babies at a similar time so fun for us was getting together in someone's house, putting the DCs to bed and having a meal and lots of drink. We then either stayed the night or lifted the kids and went home. Huge effort to achieve this night out but for a short window of opportunity, all the DCs being pretty malleable, we did get our adult evening. Then they get a bit older and it all goes out the window as they want to stay up. So you think up another plan....

No child is asking you to be born, you are deciding to bring that child into the world. You are responsible in every possible way, for many years to come, for its health, well being and happiness and for its experiences being such as to maximise its chances of a healthy, happy, self sufficient adult life, ideally still in a positive and mutually rewarding relationship with you as their adult parent. If you make it to your 80s like my parents and FIL your child will increasingly be the adult you lean on as you want a bit more help and support. So why would you not spend most of the precious time you have left after you've done everything else in focussing on your children? Not all of it, most of it! Whichever of you goes out to work FT will need to focus much of their downtime on the children in order just to pull their weight and frankly in order that the children actually have a relationship with that parent. If you both go out to work, that's most of your free time gone for the next 20 years.

So here's the good news. Unless you have a problem that you would need to resolve with professional help, you will love them like no-one you have ever loved before. You would die to save them. You will feel the most unbelievable joy and pride in their beauty, amazingness and extraordinary talent even though they won't be any more special than anyone else's kids really. This will not make you stop loving your partner or your family or your friends, most of whom will tolerate or even share your insane enthusiasm for your offspring.

Does depend massively on the age and personality of the child. Nap routines seem oppressive till you have managed the alternative: a sleep-deprived monster . But I don't think you are BtotallyU. Older children (unless SN that require a routine) should learn some level of adaptability and consideration for others as a life skill.

I totally agree that we seemed to be raised differently from how children are raised nowadays. I had the exact conversation with my dad the other day!

I remember my parents having take out nights and we children were fed early and put upstairs and expected to stay there. It never did us harm and in fact made us more independent.
I recently did the same at a friends - it took her 30 minutes to 'persuade' her youngest to go upstairs and then she kept coming down and staring at our food and asking to try some. She was told no but given it anyway

We certainly knew when adults were talking it was None of our business and we were to play elsewhere whereas I find nowadays children always come in for X,y and z and constantly ask what we are talking about. I'm amazed at the number of patents who tell them.

What I will say is that have your ideals and I certainly think some old school,parenting can have its benefits - but be prepared for it not being exactly how you imagine.

I wanted to raise DS how my parents raised me - I can do that in many respects but he has ASD and various other difficulties which means in some aspects of life its just impossible - you need to be prepared to adapt to what works for you. Also make it clear to your DCs you'll parent them how you want to and not how others do it or dictate you should.

I saw/see nothing wrong in trusting professionals to know what they're doing.

The thing that's wrong is that that trust is often misplaced.

That was my first "birth plan". I wasn't lucky, and it left me extremely vulnerable to people I didn't know and whose agenda included a lot of things that were not about my safety and wellbeing.

Labouring women are extremely vulnerable and busy maternity wards are not necessarily the safest, most respectful of places to be.

I'm not sure why anyone imagined someone idiotic enough to think children are like handbags you choose to match your outfit would know enough about childbirth to have any notion of the things that might go wrong.

people are reacting like that to your birthplan because from what you've written it looks like the staff will do the work of giving birth - it's not like that.

Absolute rubbish. My birth plan was the same and I knew I was going to have to do the work. I just defeated to them, listen to their advice then made my mind up based on how I was feeling at the time.

Having no birth plan does mean you think everyone else will do the work

OP you remind me of my sister who despite being a live in nanny for 9 years got the shock of her life when she had her own DC.

She just didn't understand the 24 hour, 7 day a week connection between a parent and child.

And she admitted what a naive idiot she'd been when she had her own DDs.

I also agree with the posters saying that hopefully, you and your DH will BOTH adapt to having DC. I know 2 couples who divorced solely because the H thought his wife wasn't paying him enough attention after DC, and he decided to get that attention elsewhere. Both women were perfectly normal wives and mothers, it's just he didn't expect his life to change very much and children change your life forever.

Ganoush spot on! Exactly what I meant when I said in my experience people like the OP are the ones who turn out to be ten times more precious. And all the news watching and intellectual conversations in place of CBeebies will of course mean the OP's dc is a GENIUS and need to be treated as such.

As people have said, depends on the child. Dd1 taken to rock faces ( DH climbs) watched cricket (DH played) camped, up mountains...just came with us. No problems. dD2 medical needs...had to stay in the house for six months, limited visitors took five hours a day to do her medical needs, attached to oxygen in the house...yup I'd say that affected our ability to be ourselves.

The more children you have, the more likely there is some children's event you need or want to attend at the weekend. Football, ballet concert, etc.

The "They'll fit around us" or "We'll fit around them" scenario isn't one I recognise.

I guess we fit around each other, because we have a shared family life rather than competing lives. Obviously things are different now to before we had children.

I don't put adult TV on or the news for during the day - I don't think it's suitable for small children. In the evening they are in bed though and we can watch what we want then. I've never felt that a hardship. I don't really want to sit and watch the news when my kids are running about [confused[

I don't play with them constantly, they entertain themselves, but days out are organised around children and baby's naps and feeds take precedence over adults.

Before I had children I thought that I would never bribe them....
Rofl!

Op - you've had lots of examples from people with difficult (for one reason or another) babies/toddlers for whom your ideals would have been impossible.
Just to let you know, you get really easy babies too, both mine have been easy going.

Not sure how things have moved on to birth plans BUT I micro managed my birth plan and spent hours thinking about how I wanted it to be. I took the NCT classes and anyone who has been to those will tell you you're encouraged to micro manage your birth! When the time came nothing went to plan and it didn't matter. Everything moves so fast and all I could think was get us both out alive! :)

As an older first time mum (I'm 42) I'm used to having my life how I want it and doing things when I want to so I thought I could make baby 'slot' in to my life and run on my schedule. It doesn't work like that and the first I would say 8 months I felt like my life didn't exist anymore, I was constantly tending to baby's needs 24/7.

As long as children are being well looked after there aren't any rules. My DP was raised in a house that ran like clockwork, everything from the time he got up, had breakfast, had dinner, went to bed etc was set in stone. You always sat at the table for meals and you had to ask to leave, you had to clear your plates before being allowed dessert etc. My parents on the other hand were both rebellious teen and have never changed! :) No set bedtimes, dinner on our laps in front of the tv....but we turned out ok :)

Imagine if parenting didn't changed.

We'd still be whacking our DC with a stick, telling them that children should be seen and not heard and in most cases the fathers word would be law.