To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

[HonestQuestion]

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready...

Oh please don't be the parents who come to a cafe to catch up with friends and then ignore their little darlings while you chat, because "they'll settle down in a while".

I had a friend who did that and many times I wanted to hide under the table in shame as every other person in the place glared daggers at us.

For the rest of it, good luck. Dsis said something similar before starting her family. My father burst out laughing on the spot and of course her life has totally changed in some ways (and not in others). I guess you'll never know until you try.

Ah, OP is aiming for 'sack cloth and ashes' parenting style so she can show what a great parent she is by not giving things to her kid.

Bet she thinks she won't let a future DD wear a princess dress either.

My sons wore princess dresses.

The OP would hate me.

Oh I think she'd let a DS, just not a DD.

You know those kids at uni who have never been allowed to do anything growing up and then go wild and spend Freshers Week vomiting and having an orgy?

That's OP's kid.

Vomiting, having an orgy, using their iPhone and wearing their princess dress.

Come on guys, don't sling mud, it undermines all the good debate. You may think op is judging you and your parenting but you're judging her right back - no judgement is morally more or less justifiable than another. She's entitled to have a view, even if you think it's an ignorant one at the moment - isn't that what this forum is for? But don't start the playground bitching, it's just not necessary.

I thought like this to an extent whenI was pregnant. DS is now 19 months and my days consist of cooking for and cleaning up after him, between stints of building lego towers and taking him to the playground. He can play by himself while I do the necessary bits but spending time with him enhances my life more than my pre-DS yoga class or whatever I ended up 'sacrificing'. Watching him grow is worth the sacrifices you make to your social life etc. That's why you have children.

Don't have a walkie talkie though.

Of course I'm judging her right back!

What on earth else would I be doing with such nonsense?

There's communicating your view and judgement and being bitchy. If you descend into the latter, people will ignore the former.

Right-o inlovewithhubby

Thanks for policing my manners.

By walkie talkie, does everyone mean a baby monitor - is this one of those things that people don't have now? Everyone I know had a baby monitor! We still have one and the youngest is nearly 6 (he does have breathing problems though).

People aren't enslaved by the baby monitor, they're just useful so you can hear if someone has woken up.

I actually agree to an extent. However, I will say that the little blighters will not entertain themselves, so you do have to engage with them on occasion. Or turn on Finding nemo/The Tigger Movie for the nth time.

Most children I know have had old iPhones handed down from parents. Saves having to buy a new payg model

Some parts of Your life will be dictated to your children's needs. Holidays. Only in school term times. You also may feel the need for your children to succeed. That sort of involves you.

Who else is going to teach them to read? Ride a bike? Play dominos? Cope with friendship problems? Parenting takes time and work!

OP I think the big thing here is you can't possibly understand how you will feel when that tiny bundle explodes into your life.

I went from being all "I plan to return to work ASAP" to "never must I let this extraordinary creature out of my sight I must live and breathe him" the instant I saw him.

Then it will make sense to you.

Who are you leaving your fictional kids with when you go on your multiple minibreaks OP?

Be sure and consult with them before you start ttc.

Yes, that was my thought too. And don't have a child who needs a lot of night time attention, be that because of medical needs or just because they don't sleep more than 3 hours at a time for the first 18 months. Because if you do, you'll probably find there won't be so many volunteers to have them for even one night at a time, let alone a mini break. Mine are reasonable sleepers, thankfully, but I've observed from others that a good way to get the offers of night time babysitting to dry up is to have a child who'll require overnight attention. Paradoxically, you get more nighttime help when you've got a child who'll do 7 til 7- basically, when you least need it. I'd also probably not get too choosy about the phone models they're going to be having, at least 12 years in advance. Will there even be a basic PAYG model available in 2028? You might find the Iphone is the equivalent by then!

And zeezeek, of course people who don't have children still have a right to an opinion about how to raise them etc. They just don't have the right to voice that opinion and not have it pointed out that they have no idea what they're talking about.

Good luck with that

Again as I said earlier I actually have an 11year old - so not just a theory here. None of them have basic pay as you go. None. Plus it will effectively lead to your DC being left out as most have group chats through whatsapp. You can try and fight technology but your DC will suffer for it.

I clearly remember when i was pregnant with DC1 absolutely slagging off my BIL and SIL to DH (behind their backs, obvs ), about the way they 'pandered' to their 2 yr old. My child was not going to be allowed to kick up a fuss at the dinner table, cry at bedtime or wake us up at 5am to play.

All I can say do is weep with laughter at myself, really. I was a twat.

Children are a massive game changer. They consume your life. And to be honest, it gets more intense as they get older. My two are at secondary and junior school now, and our lives are dominated by their education, activities/clubs/classes, parties, hobbies etc etc.

We are quite strict parents, and definitely go in for a bit of 'benign neglect' - ie. they're perfectly fine being sent to watch telly while the grown ups drink wine and talk etc. Even so...we definitely 'fit in around them' rather than the other way around.

I will reiterate what I said above, the OP can very easily continue to live her life the way she is currently (child-free) living her life - outsource. She can have maternity nurses and night nurses so she can avoid sleepless nights. She will need at least 2 nannies so those pesky offspring can't interfere with the weekly mani-pedi, lunches with friends and late nights out. She can arrange with the help to have the quality time as she sees fit, and then give them back once they become annoying. I know people who choose this route - sometimes it works, sometimes not so well.

Since becoming a parent I have become both time and cash poor. The things that used to be enjoyable are often inconvenient or expensive due to not having babysitters on tap etc.
There is a big differences between letting a calm baby sleep in a pram while you enjoy a dinner party and getting up and down with a fractious baby, or leaving a toddler in a strange room (I remember my cousin and I decimating what was probably some very expensive make-up when we were about 4) or expecting a 8 or 9 yo to wait patiently for ages while you talk to your friends.
The whole 'schedule' thing aka feeding them and putting them to bed before they get all whiney and show you up in front of your childless guests is to make your life easier, not a ridiculous overindulgence.
I would kill to go on a mini break, but I don't have anyone to have them overnight and I don't have as much money as I had pre kids. It's not because I have lost who I am.

There is no such thing as a child - they are all different, just like adults: not moldable, pliable .

Interestingly, a big predictor of an unhappy home with behavioural and psychological difficulties is psychological inflexibility on the part of the parents - an inability to respond adaptively to the challenges that arise e.g. parenting a child you thought you'd like to have instead of the one you got. So consistently and persistently insisting a child will behave a certain way when how they are behaving is actually entirely normal (often means blowing up over tiny things and neglecting to respond effectively to signs of distress), controlling their interests, being harsh/critical/judgemental, not contingently responding to their needs (e.g. insisting children stay awake when they are sleepy, don't eat when they are hungry etc), not being willing to make changes when what you are doing isn't resulting in your child thriving.

In many cases, this sort of rigidity comes about when people are very highly stressed because of life circumstances but it also happens when people have impossibly high standards and a streak of perfectionism.

And yes, lots of people WERE parented like that - and it results in a lot of adult dysfunction, depression, anxiety, addiction and emotional disorder. So not to be recommended.

There's also the important point that there are ages and stages. We have three (6, 4 and 2) and at this stage the amount of time they can occupy themselves is increasing all the time, almost on a week by week basis.

So we are getting out more and the oldest one is even developing his own little life entirely separate from us with school, playing out, birthday parties, playdates etc.

However, when they were 4, 2 and 0 there was NO LIFE and the whole world revolved around eating, sleeping and keeping them effectively occupied/soothed so that life wasn't a constant round of screaming.

And it's likely there will be other busy times - perhaps when specific peer difficulties arise that need a bit of adult support, or there are two or more doing exams etc. It just ebbs and flows. But as in any part of life, setting strict rules about how to respond to a huge number and variety of unknown situations can lead to insensitivity to contextual demands in ways that just make everyone miserable, so not a good way forward.

I was a fabulous parent before I had children.

I actually think the OP has a point. Yeah, yeah, we've all seen people pre-kids ponce on about how they're going to do things, and then end up eating their words, but I agree that the mainstream way of doing things in this country is terribly child-centric and this isn't always to the benefit of the children in the long run. In schools, we are dealing with a whole generation of kids who expect adults to jump when they say so and they get quite a shock when they have to learn it doesn't work like that out in the real world.

We did a lot of the things you'd like to aim for, they did not rule our house and we certainly never expected friends and relatives to run social events around our timetable. Not that we even had a timetable as such. BUT, we were fortunate in that our kids were quite easy-going and didn't mind being chucked in a travel cot wherever we were. And I've never allowed my kids to interrupt adults speaking, unless it's an emergency.

They're 17 & 19 now and not too mentally scarred.

Op how are your friends supposed to talk to you without entertaining their small children ? It's horrible that you expect your friends to ignore very young children and just chat to you. I hate meeting friends without kids for this exact reason. I always feel anxious while I try to split ny attention.

Remember that parents are often warding off bad behaviour or boredom in ways that you don't notice.

And your husband saying there will be no kids tv just makes him sound like a dick.

You both sound mean judgemental and y sympathetic to your friends.

And also..completely ludicrous to say people should leave their children overnight. Who with?! Bedtime abd night waking mean kids have to be with someone who knows them really well. And like many people wr don't live near grandparents