To think that children will fit in around OUR lives, not the other way around?

[HonestQuestion]

I am sure I'm going to get flamed for this but maybe there will be some good advice too! (I have NCd)

DH and I were talking last night about how we intend to bring up children. We have seen friends and family where DC rule the roost - everything is organised around the children. The children aren't ever left to their own devices to play; the parents are constantly playing with them and distracting them with activities. The TV is always switched to children's channels, not the news or anything adult. Evenings with the family have to be run on the children's schedule for naps and snacks and feeding.

Even when they are in bed, the mums are held hostage to the DC speaking over the walkout talkie and summoning them to the bedroom plenty of times before they finally go to sleep. We meet up with our friends for lunch or dinner or a day out, and always seem to come home not really having had much of a chat or catch up with our friends - because the day or evening is always all about the children - we all have to be in their thrall!

It seems the experience of raising a child these days is so far removed from how DH and I were brought up. We remember being left to our own devices to play, watching the news and learning about the world from it, we remember that the adults ruled the house - my dad would never have dreamed of having kids' TV on all evening when he got home from work!

And it's so far removed from how we want to raise our children. We don't want to lose 'who we are' and what we find interesting. A friend of ours said on FB the other day that she is going on a mini break and leaving her DC alone overnight for the first time in 3 years! I can't imagine being like that! And I can't imagine having a DC, meeting up with friends but spending that time constantly entertaining the children.

AWBU? I have my hard hat ready...

OP you seem obsessed with saying no and banning things. It's all about what you won't do, all negative.

Have you considered what things you will do for your DCs, what you will give them? Your aspirations and hopes? Cos at the moment it reads like you're anticipating a boot camp, not a childhood.

I remember when I was a DC I had a lot more freedom to go out and about.

So DM remembers one time someone came to visit, asked where I was only to be told I was down the road at my friends about 20 doors away - I was three at the time .

I also recall that my friend and I age about 6 were seen cycling on the dual carriageway about a mile from home - we'd simply never been told not too, DM was horrified and laid down some limits after that.

Before everyone starts jumping to the conclusion I was dragged up by wolves, my DM was a paediatrician ( whereas I can hardly spell it) and my DF a lecturer.

There was just a lot more slack then, hence why DCs were a lot more able to entertain themselves. I remember when DS was 5 we let him play with his friend who lives opposite us - we live in a cul de sac and the only traffic is people driving into their driveways.

He had very clearly defined boundaries about where he could and couldn't go and if he left the house he had to tell us that he was going to his friends. It all seemed fine to me, but some of our friends were horrified by this.

Actually sorry I'm not sure where I'm going with this, or how it fits into the OP theme , but I think it's to say that there's a lot more criticism around people's parenting than there was before and less opportunity for DCs to develop their independence as they get older.

When I moved in with DH I didn't expect everything to stay exactly the same. I expected that sometimes I'd have to do things he wanted, eat the food he wanted, watch something he wanted on TV. Sometimes he might even have an opinion on where we went on holiday, or what we did on a day out at the weekend. And sometimes what I wanted would take priority. The point of moving in with him was precisely that it would be different, but in a good way. That I'd have to compromise a lot more but that it would be more than worth it.

Same goes for my kids. I have to compromise, sometimes they fit in with me, other times I fit in with them. There's more me fitting in with them at the moment - I have to pick up from school, I can't just tell them I'm not hungry so to get their own dinner....

And practicalities dictate a lot. I played out in the street with my friends. Mine don't. I grew up in the suburbs on a quiet street with a dozen other kids my age around. My two are growing up in the arse end of nowhere with no kids in walking distance, no pavements and idiots who streak through the village like they're driving in a Grand Prix. But I didn't go to the beach as a kid except on holidays. Mine virtually live there. I have to take them but it's ten minutes away and as I love the beach too it's no hardship.

The biggest thing is I gave up my job to do one I love a lot less but is part time. I adored my previous job but it didn't pay enough to cover child care costs so I had to do what was needed. It's fine. I get to spend more time with my kids.

OP, I hope you have a lot of money and/or don't live in the UK, have nearby family and friends who are willing and able to babysit at short notice, or other sources of night-time childcare.

Long before I had my son, I noted that only one couple out of our widely-scattered friendship group appeared to lead their lives largely as they did before having children - holding down two high-powered professional jobs involving long hours, travelling a lot, frequently going out at night together and separately, weekends away without their children, pursuing pre-children hobbies etc.

I realised after I had my own child that this ability to preserve their pre-children life was largely down to (a) living in a country with cheap, high-quality government-provided childcare from 7 am to 7 pm and the expectation that both parents work, and that they had the income to top that up with a housekeeper where necessary and (b) living close to one side of the extended family, which included a recently-retired grandmother who was delighted to babysit at night, for weekends, and to arrive at no notice if a child was ill and off school/crèche.

It wasn't free-spiritedness on the part of the parents, it came down to childcare possibilities.

By the time you have an 11 year old.OP...I phones will be old hat.

There's a point in there in that some parents don't help themselves sometimes, and most of us aren't doing the best we can do all the time. And there has been an absolute sea change in parenting and childhood in the past couple of decades, as there has in adult life, because of the impact of the internet and new technology. I was born in the mid 80s, and my children's world is so different to mine because of that. Just as my adulthood has been very different to my parents. Because internets. Clearly OP is foolish to think she can opt out of that, the world isn't going to stop to allow her to get off. But imho it's understandable to look at the new reality and feel scared, intimidated, find at least some aspects of it undesirable. Hence the Iphone comments.

But the flipside to the child centric view is that there are also people who think children should be seen and not heard, that they have a right to be on a plane or in a supermarket or anywhere children aren't specifically excluded and yet somehow not encounter the portion of the general public that is under 12. The support networks for new parents, new mothers let's be honest, are often shit. People's answer to this is to yarn on about how it's different in the Mediterranean, failing to consider that this might be due to them typically only having one child, completely different societal attitudes and also typically having more extended family for support (I can personally attest to the fact that this makes it much, much easier). That is, blaming the parents rather than the different social setup.

I was a fabulous parent before I had children

I was a frigging expert, then I had a child, with ASD. If you think that won't change your life then think again.

No kids TV?? And only watching the news?? I'd rather sit and watch MR Bean any day than the fucking news and all of its death disease and misery. Learning about the world by watching the news?? Dear god..this all sounds very Victorian, remember our sense of humour and embrace our inner child! 😜

I remember thinking I'd have my shit together in a month and be out clubbing. Oh my word I had no idea that there was such a thing as a bottle refuser or that weirdly I just didn't want to be a room away from my baby. I don't think I've stepped in a club in the 7 years since having children.

I think I could have written some of your post pre children. I remember my sister putting her two to bed when they were toddlers and thinking that her routine was a bit bonkers. Fast forward a few years and I was doing the same ninja rolls off the bed so I didn't wake them and creeping out the door on my stomach like a soldier in combat.

A friend of mine has 3 kids, the oldest is 6. Her and her partner went out together for the first time in 5 years. Me and my partner have a 2 year old, we've been out together twice because we simply A)cannot find childcare for our timing or B)have no family to help
Things change when you have kids

Also I only have the tv on twice during the day, I've never had the news on when my son is in the room. Not intentional just don't like the news

Also some of us actually like making things child centric.

When I was about 5 I loved Disney - I got the Mickey Mouse comic every week, I had a pullout of Disneyworld stuck on my wall from it.

We went to Florida on holiday because my GPs lived there ( DF is American) guess what - we didn't go to Disneyworld because my DPs wouldn't have enjoyed it.

Maybe I'm just being childish but even now that rankles. We were all the way out there and they couldn't have put my desires first for one day?

ironically my DF now edits old videotapes as a hobby and comments on how many families have been to Disney in the 70s - you think Dad, but not me?

We took DS to Disney when he was 7, he loved it. Wouldn't be our ideal holiday, but you know what the enjoyment on his face when he did the rides and the character breakfast was better than almost anything.

Fast forward a few years and I was doing the same ninja rolls off the bed so I didn't wake them and creeping out the door on my stomach like a soldier in combat.

I remember those days. When da would only nap in his bed if he was laid on me. So had roll him off then ninja roll off the bed.

Made me laugh thinking of it

Haven't rtft but agree to a certain point that your lives shouldn't stop and it become 'all about the children' when you have kids. Yes your lives change but its important to see you friends, keep some of your own interests and have some sort of identity that isn't just 'mum' well for me it is anyway!!

I have also been of the mind set that i will provide the toys and environment needed for dd to play but the thought of trying to play with her makes me cringe. She is able to play independently (age 10yo) for long periods of time and is also able to find something to do if bored.

That said until you have kids you seriously can not understand the emotional connection you will feel to them, their sadness, worries, anxieties are all yours as well. That in itself is so draining at times.

We all have our own ways which is a great thing in a liberal democracy. I have never had a major problem with any of my children and I have never had to things like punish, naught step etc. and never would nor have smacked them. We talk a lot and that always helps but my way is not the way of everyone else.

On their fitting into your life start as I did - 2 weeks off work to have ab aby and back full time - the beauty of that is you don't have sexism at home either. I expressed milk at work. It also gives the child the best thing in life a high earning mother, private schools, no univesrity student loans etc etc. Huge benefits and it probably the biggest example of parents not ridiculously changing their lives supposedly to benefit the child when in fact the not working thing tends to be just about the worst thing you can do to your child!

My brother had the same opinion as you. He was the last of the siblings to have children. We were all on holiday one year and my one and a half year old was being a bit grizzly, not making whilst we waited for dinner and he said why is she moaning, when I have kids they won't get away with that in a restaurant. They will be quiet and behave. Roll on four and a half years and he had his daughter last year and oh how I was amused at what a shock he's had and how silly he feels now in hindsight!

Alternatively you and DH agree this before children, you go on maternity leave an your life becomes all about the baby (because babies are all encompassing) and DH carries on as normal. Potential breeding ground for resentment.

I can only reiterate what I said earlier in threat: you are not a parent yet so describing your approach and taking yourself and expecting others to take it as anything other than idle daydreaming (nothing wrong with idle daydreaming at all) is very silly.

Plus having firm views of what 'your' 11 year old child will have as a mobile is flat out ridiculous. In these matters, you simply don't know until you're there. I have a younger son. I have no idea how I will deal with the issue of mobiles because we're not there yet. I will however decide upon my approach and decision when we are.

I shall go out like I did before- lasted 3 months
No TV unless educational- 18 months
Bedtime without my presence- 2 years
No toy guns, not even bow and arrow- 4 years
No tablet until teenage- 7 years... and many many more since

I call the shots and they'll fit around ME ME ME- didn't even last until giving birth.

I think most of us imagine how we'll parent, but as with most things the reality when you actually know what you are doing differs from the day-dream.

The reason parents don't do the things the OP lists, is because it is selfish to put your own needs ahead of your child's. You become a family, one in which each person is important. You might like sitting in a noisy restaurant until 11pm, but a one year old might find it difficult to sleep and you may well consider it a bit dangerous to have them asleep on the floor at your feet when waiters are carrying out hot dishes around. As in everything, its a compromise. Sometimes your needs come first, sometimes someone else's trump yours.

(If you can't stand the thought that your responsibility for caring for your child will impact on your ability to do exactly as you please at any given moment, then please don't get pregnant as its just not fair to bring a child into the world and then not look after him or her).

Dd fitted into our life easily. Then we got ds! Things had to change but once he was at school things got much easier and we have a family life where our children are teens and we fit round each other.

A lot of your post sounds like you're talking about older kids.

I'm pregnant and my expectation from seeing new parent friends is that, yes, when you have a baby EVERYTHING changes - because you are responsible for a tiny little human instead of just yourself, but that it's not something that's been forced on you so it's something you do in exchange for the moments of joy.

There's a big difference between being there 24/7 for a baby of toddler who needs that level of attention, and giving older children space to play and develop on their own, which is what you seem to be also thinking about.

Journo

Well. My tuppence worth to go with all the others. Your perspective of your childhood is as a child, not the parent, huge difference! You will find out how knackienring it is to bring up kids, needing 2 to earn, mortgaged to the hilt, navigating battles over food, social media..probably without the extended family support your parents had. The very best of luck, if you're genuine. Please DO report back!

I had to sit there when my then childless SIL told me (as a working mother of 2) how it annoyed her having women in her team "sitting round drinking coffee on maternity leave" . She now admits it's "the hardest thing she's ever done in her life" . Love her to bits, but karma, hey?!

I actually have a friend like you OP, her and her husband are newlyweds but they have both spoken about starting a family, his ideas are that they will do it all themselves, no help from family, nobody else babysitting, they will just do everything themselves.

Her opinion is that she will teach them every single thing possible before they are 2 so they can absorb everything. so music classes, exercise classes, french or spanish classes.... I cannot wait for them to have a baby. they see my Ds now and hardly say 2 words to him, it saddens me actually as we used to be close but I don't think they are child people, they prefer weekends away and still expect to do this, but honestly it depends on the baby you are given. Mine was an awful sleeper so i ad strict times for his nap after much trial and error I worked out what was best for us all. and that meant me sacrificing certain days out then so be it. Id rather not go out knowing I have to come home to a tired cranky baby who would need 2-3 days to settle back into his routine. It just wasnt worth it so on that side you do prioritise things. I

I'm not saying it cannot happen but your setting yourself up for a massive fall by announcing how you know how to do everything just by visiting your friends for an hour of their lives and watching them with their children.

I was going to walk everyday through my pregnancy and wouldn't put on any weight through my exercise routine - 5 months in I was confined to bed with SPD and was on crutches to get to the toilet. Life just doesn't go to plan and once you realise this then you'll be fine. If you don't change your views then I feel massively sorry for your children to be.

Those saying your carry on as before and your children just tag along.... I wonder in years to come what they will say about their childhood, their parents just dragged us to wherever they wanted to go to...