AIBU to think a male paedophile rapist should definitely go to a male prison?

[HermioneWeasley]

And it shouldn't just be "likely"?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35726292

FFS.

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

And I think respecting gender identity consisting overall makes the world a better and happier place for more people

And what about female people? Respecting gender identity leads to female people being forced to accept male people in intimate spaces, such as rape crisis centres and domestic violence refuges. Do you think that's right? That 'davina' should be able to live in a refuge with women fleeing violence and possibly rape? That's what respecting gender identity leads to, when you make laws based on respecting people's subjective feelings over material reality.

I don't think trans people should be disadvantaged. But male prisoners should be kept in male prisons. If they are particularly vulnerable for any reason not just the fact that they present as feminine they should be protected. In male prisons.

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

Sleepy - being gender critical and questioning trans doctrine isn't being small minded. Nor is it anything like being homophobic.

[HermioneWeasley]

I care about trans people and want them to live their lives free of discrimination. Most of the time someone's gender identity is neither here nor there.

But I do also care about the millions of women and girls who stand to lose out big time from self identification being the legal definition of "woman"

I am all in favour of trans prison wings. I am not in favour of a subset of men, regardless of how they identify, being imprisoned with women. We don't put other men who are vulnerable to abuse in male prisons in with women, why this group?

[HermioneWeasley]

sleepy gay people didn't insist that straight people become gay, we just wanted our rights to peacefully live our lives.

Lesbians are harassed and abused for not wanting sex with male bodied trans women.

Women are being required to give up space and make ourselves less safe for a subset of men.

If Transwomen were campaigning for trans prisons, trans hospital wings and trans refuges I would be shoulder to shoulder fighting. But many group aren't - they are insisting that women give up ours. Fuck that.

[hazeyjane]

I find that last post incredibly insulting and patronisin g, Sleepy.

[attheendoftheday]

I need to stop reading threads like this. I am upset that so much of society is still anti-trans.

As far as I'm concerned people can identify their own gender. If a violent offender identifies as a woman then treat them the same way other female violent offenders who are a risk to other women are treated.

Any of us could have been born in a different sex body. Imagine how you would like to be treated if it had happened to you.

[WindyMillersProbationOfficer]

Yeah women, imagine your body having an impact on how you are treated. Like that ever happens to you

[attheendoftheday]

But transfer women are a subset of women not a subset of men.

I do not believe all trans women are out harassing lesions to have sex with them. If that happens it is clearly wrong, but I don't see you judging other minority groups for the poor behaviour of a few.

[hazeyjane]

Why is it is anti-trans to ask what makes a person with their male biology intact, a woman - who is able to be able to use women's toilets, changing rooms and prisons and stand for roles as a representative of women as a woman.

I am not anti-trans, but I am confused,because I do not understand the above and no-one, as yet, has explained it to me

[attheendoftheday]

Transfer=trans.

Stupid phone.

[DianaTrent]

This is it. Self identification is a very simple solution on the surface, and has the benefit of sounding very progressive and being exceedingly cheap to implement. The problem is that difficult real world solutions often need nuance. It's not a matter of not respecting people who are trans or not wanting them to be happy. The majority of women I have spoken to who are considered as 'TERF bigots' would fully support enhanced measures to oppose workplace discrimination against trans people and improved medical care where this is lacking - also the provision of safe spaces for trans people to ensure that they are not subject to violence. 99% of the time, a transwoman would therefore be free to do what she wants, call herself what she wishes and be fully protected in law from discrimination, which is only right. However, there are some situations in which safe spaces may need to be separate spaces, particularly for transwomen who have not had any medical transition at all, and rape services and prisons with cell sharing with a vulnerable female need to retain a legal provision for providing separation. All vulnerable people need protection. Not just the trans ones.

[attheendoftheday]

Imagine you had a pens but otherwise felt exactly the same. Would you want to live as a man or would that not be OK?

I would still feel like a woman and would consider myself a woman.

[whatdoIget]

Yet people on here would love to sit him down with their 'feminist' ideology and tell him how he feels is wrong - like having a real vagina is a badge of honour. I would love to know what right some women on here think they have to tell other people how they really think or feel about themselves

No, not true at all. If I met your friend I would be happy to refer to them as him and use whatever name he chose. I would have no interest at all in whether he had had surgery or not. However, I would not be happy about a man with a penis being in a women's prison. Surely you can see there's a difference, and a line that needs drawing?

[CoteDAzur]

YANBU.

"Maybe using a two letter identifier for criminal and maybe medical records. So first letter sex, second would be gender identity. So FF for female woman, MX male gender fluid etc In order to have the most accurate information possible."

This is actually a really good idea. They get to keep their "preferred gender", we get to keep our biological sex, and nobody remains under the illusion that they are the same thing.

[hazeyjane]

Describe what you mean by 'live as a man'?

[eatingworms]

I need to stop reading threads like this. I am upset that so much of society is still anti-trans.

I need to stop reading threads like this. I am upset that so much of society is still anti-women.

[HermioneWeasley]

attheend I have a wife, I have a senior job, I like high performance cars. Am I "living like a man"?

[VioletVaccine]

YADNBU!!

He belongs in a prison with all the other convicts who use their penis to commit rape.

[HermioneWeasley]

attheend what does it mean to "feel like a woman"

Despite my masculine attributes, I know I am a woman because of my biology. I feel like me.

What does feeling like a woman mean to you?

[CoteDAzur]

"Imagine you had a penis but otherwise felt exactly the same. Would you want to live as a man or would that not be OK? I would still feel like a woman and would consider myself a woman."

(1) You don't know that. If you had a penis you would also have testes and be running on testosterone. It is highly likely that you would want to live as a man.

(2) If I had a penis and associated biology, I would be a man. I would be born a boy, socialised as a boy, my entire life experience would be that of a boy and later of a man. Yes, I would consider myself a man, not least because anything else would be a delusion.

[VinceNoirLovesHowardMoon]

Any of us could have been born in a different sex body. Imagine how you would like to be treated if it had happened to you

If I had a male body I would be me, but a man. I would have been raised as a boy/man and would feel perfectly comfortable being a man. As it is, I was raised a girl/woman due to my female body. My body isn't wrong, nobody's is. There is no such thing as being born the 'wrong sex' - there is feeling like you were born the wrong sex or wishing to be the opposite sex but 'male brain in female body' is an impossible concept. It's not real.

[HermioneWeasley]

What is there about being a woman which leads you to conclude its a social construct that one can identify in and out of, and that gender identity is the material reality that matters?

This boggles me- I could throw a stone in any direction anywhere in the world and hit a woman who is experiencing inequality due to her biological sex. How is that not reality?

[Alisvolatpropiis]

attheendoftheday

No - transmen are a subset of women.

Transwomen are a subset of men.

What with the fact feelz doesn't impact biology and the two groups will be affected by the biological illnesses/issues which commonly affect their sex. Unless identifying as the opposite gender suddenly renders it impossible for transwomen to develop prostate cancer and it possible for transmen to develop it?

[whatdoIget]

There aren't a load of souls waiting to be put into bodies and sometimes God is having a bad day and puts a girl soul in a boy body. Does anyone who thinks 'being born in the wrong body' is a thing not realise how properly not sane what they're saying is?

[TeaOnEverest]

Yanbu. This person raped a girl, with his penis. He needs to be in a male prison

Funny how he didn't mind being a man when he was using his male genitalia to rape a child