AIBU to think a male paedophile rapist should definitely go to a male prison?

[HermioneWeasley]

And it shouldn't just be "likely"?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35726292

FFS.

I have a letter drafted for sending to my MP but he won't give a damn, he's all about career trajectory.

Your MP might not give a damn, but he has to respond.

If everyone on this thread wrote and expressed concerns, it would start a tiny blip on the radar. If we all managed to get a friend to do it as well, that would be a bigger blip, if they all persuade a friend the ripples get bigger.

We are 50% of the voting population - we deserve to have our voices heard on this and shouldn't just roll over. If we make it clear this is an issue for us, who are lazy and self serving MPs going to back - half their voters or a tiny minority of a tiny minority?

I had an interesting exchange with a friend on FB this week who is very pro trans. I stated my concerns about self identification and she disagreed. Then I posted the article in the OP and she commented "I'm starting to see your point".

If we talk about this, we can influence it.

It's finding a way to present the problem in a way that doesn't immediately trigger people to knee-jerk responses with cries of "vile transphobe!". Extreme examples like the rapist possibly going to a women's prison at least highlights the problem of self-identification.

I think the focus needs to be on self-identification. That is so self-evidentally bonkers to 99.99% of the population that it is the easier for MPs to grasp (not suggesting they are thick - Nadine Dorries excepted - but they are bombared with competing messages so simple is good).

I'm planning to write to my MP who is about 6'4" and who has 2 young daughters, pointing out that all he would have to do is state he identifies as a woman to use woman-only spaces, including toilets etc used by girls of his daughters' age. I am also going to point out that there was public outcry about mixed hospital wards but that Maria Miller's policy would make the situation even worse and that the government can expect a backlash once word gets out.

Why don't we all write to our own MP but copy to all female MPs? - easily done through the They work for you website.

The thing is that the vast majority of sensible minded folk can see that 'self identification' having legal basis is absolitely batshit crazy and open to abuse. It simply PC nonsense and a fad that will pass.

Genuine trans folk need to be protected but you cannot have a situation where, for example, a bloke can simply say "I identify as a woman" then wander into a female changing room.

reality of course it's bonkers, but it's about to be enshrined in law and will be very hard to row back from. As you can see from the examples posted, apparently women being raped and sexually assaulted as a consequence isn't enough for sense to prevail.

I've really learned something from this thread.

This is an interesting thread. I would have described myself as supportive of trams people in so much as I regard other people's live and especially their bodies to be none of my business and therefore a trans person should be able to live their lives without persecution for their choices, however this 'self identification' agenda is worrying and frankly bonkers.

So if a bio women needed intimate medical treatment and requested a female doctor, under this paradigm she would not be able to object to a trans women (regardless of their degree of transition) Doctor from examining her without being labeled a bigot or potentially breaking the law?

Whilst I've never really objected to having male doctors (a doctor is a doctor doing a job in my opinion), how would that work with say a Muslim women?

It would essentially be taking away women's rights to say who has access to their bodies, wouldn't it?

It would essentially be taking away women's rights to say who has access to their bodies, wouldn't it?

That's it in a nutshell.

Quiet, you have hit the nail on the head.
We need more of these threads to raise awareness.

I have written to my MP (thanks for the link Shiny)
I urge everyone to do the same.

In DS's form, there is a M2F trans pupil, aged 14. For the purpose of this, I'll call her Jenny, who used to be Jack.
Jack now identifies as Jenny, and is accepted as the gender she identifies as.
I don't know (none of my business) whether she takes hormones, but she dresses, lives, and wants to be considered as a female.
The vast majority of people have been accepting and understanding of the difficulties faced.
Jenny uses the disabled or staff bathrooms, and has a separate area to change after (girls) PE.
However, when the school year travel to Europe this year, I will be making a polite enquiry as to the sleeping arrangements.
This is a 6 day trip. Boys are generally in one area of the hotel during school overnight excursions, and girls in the other, with respective form tutors overseeing the pupils when lights go out.
Jenny, according to DS, is sleeping with her female best friends.
However, despite how she feels, she still has a Penis.
Should she be in a dorm with three other girls?
Whatever Jenny identifies as her gender, her sexuality is not necessarily geared towards the opposite sex. Maybe she is a M2F lesbian, who is attracted to girls?

Would you want your 14 year old daughter to share a room with an anatomically correct male for a week? I wouldn't.
Similarly, should someone who believes they are female, be forced to share a dorm with 3 teenage lads she isn't friends with?

My head hurts. The world is too complicated for me

Can't remember if this was posted earlier in this thread or in one of the others but there's a really good blog post here about the proposed change to the law.

One thing I learnt while campaigning on an unrelated issue - it's worth talking face to face with your MP if you can. You'll get a response if you write to them but if you can make it to a surgery you're far more likely to change their opinion or at least get them to understand what the problem is. Print out some stuff for them to take away and read as well, or follow up with a letter.

It might be quite effective to get word out to older women. They're far less likely to put up with this nonsense than the youngsters, and politicians care more about what older people think because they're more likely to vote.

I haven't decided yet how brave I can afford to be about this in real life, it could easily cost me my job. I could be a bit more active online though, and have a chat with my mum.

Great link, Plenty - I'm going to attach it to the letter to my MP.

Has anyone yet given a definition of what a woman is?

VioletVaccine, you're asking very pertinent questions, I would be concerned too in your position.

VioletVaccine

My head hurts. The world is too complicated for me

Imagine how the school must feel, which ever way they go the school will be wrong according to someone.

TBH, I am surprised that the school has got away with the pupil using the disabled toilets and changing in another room without someone complaining.

All this is a total minefield for secondary schools, I don't envy those who will have to make hard decisions on this.

MrsJamin nor do I. I feel apprehensive about broaching the issue at all.
How can you ask where an unknown pupil will be sleeping at night, without being labeled a transphobic, or bigoted?

I think I may start a thread about this as it's been playing on my mind today.

I haven't read the entire thread yet so apologies if this is O/T or already been addressed. How should we view people who are intersex, as opposed to transgender? I'm thinking of individuals who are, for example, XXY rather than XX or XY. Or an XY "man" who has problems with testosterone receptors, so never develops proper male genitalia? I recognise that such cases are rare. However, I struggle to reconcile them philosophically with the "men's bits equals man, woman's bits equals woman and that's that" viewpoint.

slippery there may well be more knowledgable people along, but it's my understanding that for most intersex conditions (which are in themselves incredibly rare and nothing to do with being trans) the individual will still have a dominant "conventional" biological sex. Conditions where people have both sets of genitals and reproductive organs and its impossible to tell what sex they are, are very very rare (I think). I don't know what happens to babies in that case? If they've been raised and socialised as one sex, I would consider them as that sex, I guess.

Plenty - that is a good blog. I am going to write to my MP, and I can use that blog. I think I'll probably initially focus on what the proposed legislative changes mean for the NHS, because I'm not at all certain how on earth the single-sex wards can be maintained. The local (district general) hospital is one of my MP's "things", and, because of the age demographics locally, there are a significant number of older patients, so I guess I can push the possibility of a six-bedded ward with five older women (such as myself!) and a be-penised younger self-identified transwoman. Although that is statistically unlikely, it would be a good starting point.

Then I can move on to the issue for schools - three largish secondary schools and a huge sixth-form college - and what the proposed legislation will mean for them. And I'll make the point that being inclusionary shouldn't be at the expense of girls.

That blog will (if he reads it) raise many of the other issues.

Actually, dammit, he should bloody well read it. This is the potential future for all the women and girls in his constituency.

Well I've finally actually written to MP. Did someone upthread say MP is obliged to respond? Or am I making that up?

And I'll make the point that being inclusionary shouldn't be at the expense of girls.

It has implications for intersectionality too (where a person is in more than 1 group recognised by the Equality Act). Some women will not share intimate spaces like toilets with men (male bodied persons) for religious reasons (religion and ethnicity are protected, as well as sex). I mentioned a case Ion another thread where women in religious groups felt unable to use the toilets in one organisation when gender neutral toilets were introduced because of their religious/cultural beliefs and had to resort to using the disabled toilet (separate cubicle, not shared), which then had an adverse impact on the disabled staff and visitors on site. The organisation reverted to sex (biological) segregated toilets fairly soon after.

wanda re single sex wards, I read a heartbreaking post recently by a woman who's on a psych ward. There's a 6'4" pre op trans woman in the same bay as her, and it is absolutely hampering her recovery. She's questioned it and been told that the TW has every right to be on the women's wing - even if his need for validation is actually harming her.

It made me so sad, and so angry and so determined to do something to stop this madness.