Teen deceit - phones and social media

[Astrocloud]

First time poster here and really don't know what to do next. It's more of a WWYD.

I have a DD of 16 who is consistently deceitful. Mostly around the use of devices and social media and she is, unfortunately, an accomplished liar.

Had a great relationship with her up until a few months ago. Started going downhill shortly before she was 16 (end of Y10/ beginning of Y11). I love her of course but don't like the way she behaves some of the time.

DD is outgoing and independent and has many hobbies we support financially and via ferrying her here, there and everywhere. She also has a boyfriend we facilitate her seeing (he lives a 40 min drive away). We support her in all she wants to do and she knows she is loved.

She has an ipad and the latest iphone. She knows we have her passcode and that we periodically check. We have restrictions on these devices following previous incidents.

Recently I discovered she had downloaded Tinder on her phone and had posted pictures of herself, one in a bikini. I was livid, deleted the account and restricted her phone such that she couldn't download any further apps. I also deleted Snapchat following issues with that too. We have had several discussions and arguments about the dangers of the internet, appropriate use of social media and the like. I don't trust her.

Anyway today Ihave discovered (via checking her messages - she knows that I periodically check her phone now) that her friend's boyfriend is going to give her his old phone so she has a secret one which she can use via wifi without us knowing. God knows what her intentions are. I am upset at this deceit and just don't know what to do and where to go with it.

My child who is still at home has plenty of freedom, plenty of privacy but putting revealing photos on tinder would be a deal breaker. I'm not sure how it doesn't relate to concern?

My DD is younger and I was totally wild at 16, but in a 16yr old way... But Tinder to me is like direct advertising for casual sex? Not great at all.

I agree lurked. I pay for my son's phone so we are clear that I could check it anytime I want to. He is happy for me to have hus pass code and login details for fb

I wouldn't use them though, I think that the value of our mutual trust is higher and more important than that. No he isn't an adult but really he isn't a child anymore either. I want him to feel trusted.

OP, sounds like you're doing a great job.

You can spot the parents of the teens from the non-parents of teens on here! I've worked with vulnerable teenagers and I have one. I don't "spy" on my child or "control" her. I want her to be safe. She can snog boys, have a fag and a can of beer, stay up late giggling on Skype with her friends but I will help her protect herself if she puts herself in harm's way. That's called parenting. She can push a few boundaries but I'll be damned if I sit back and let her walk blindly into a fire.

She's 16 and you shouldn't be "checking her phone etc." how awful for her. She's bound to rebel is this is what you do.

If I were you I would be considering saying that if she cannot use her phone/ipad responsibly then I am afraid I would not be paying for them. If she wants these items to use in any way she sees fit, then she can pay for them herself.

Clearly OP had a reason to suspect her DD would not be using her phone/ipad/ intent access responsibly. She was right. I would be worried about a 16 year old posting a photo of herself in a bikini on tindr with the location setting switched on- it is an unwise and irresponsible thing to do. I would have removed that app from the phone I was providing to my 16 year old, and as she clearly had shown bad judgement I would also be wanting to periodically check that she was acting more sensibly. I would not be going through every message or email, though. The choice would be that she could either accept this agreement or fund her own mobile/tablet.

I guess what I am trying to say is the principle that with rights come responsibilities. The OP's DD has a right to privacy, but if she wants to be treated like an adult, then she must use these things responsibly and safely.

However, when she behaved irresponsibly (and dangerously) previously by contacting older men on the internet, thus potentially putting herself at risk it became apparent that she was not mature enough to be allowed that degree of freedom and responsibility unsupervised. Therefore, she was allowed to continue to use a mobile phone/ iPad and use the internet freely . In return, her parents would periodically check that she was acting safely and responsibly. Once again, by using Tindr, she has shown again that she is not making safe choices.

I would agree education about dangers of grooming by older men, the potential implications of putting these images/information about yourself on the internet for all to see etc are essential in helping her make better decisions. However, I would struggle to just sit back and say "well, do whatever you like no matter how dangerous. I will not check, I will not supervise in any way and will wait to be told" if my DD had been doing risky things such as messaging much older men on the internet and using Tndr in this way. You may find out far too late and the damage will be done.

It's not the same thing as checking your partners phone and emails/ messages- that is a different relationship and dynamic and I don't think it is a good comparison to this situation.

great post Zariyah, articulated what I wanted to say far better than I did.

I have a DD of 16 who is consistently deceitful. Mostly around the use of devices and social media and she is, unfortunately, an accomplished liar.

Jesus Christ. Doesnt sound as if you even like her. No wonder she hides things from you.

OP, when I was 15, I got involved in a social media website that I helped moderate. I met a member there who was in his 40's, but completely captivated my mind. He was intelligent, fun, flirty and told me nothing but wonderful things about myself, engaged me in debate, wrote me poems, was supremely handsome, etc. I "fell in love" with him, and he would call my house phone when my parents were away, write me letters because I would always get to the mailbox first, and eventually he sent me a cell phone so we could call each other and swap pictures. When my mom found the cellphone, I paid my best friend $50 to lie for me and tell my mom it was her old phone and that she gave it to me as a gift. My contact with this man continued until I was 17, when he suddenly "died of cancer". In actuality, he had been arrested for possession of child pornography, which I found out by Googling his details years later. I also used AFF to mind a 21 year old boyfriend at 17. I was a straight A student and involved in the community, never drank nor took drugs, but was definitely not careful about protecting myself and my body when it came to an online presence. I don't want to accuse your daughter of anything, and don't want to make you distrust her, but if there's even a slight possibility she is like I was, there's much more she isn't telling you.

I have 5 dd's (20,18. 14x2 & 13) I cannot believe what I'm reading ! - 'Insisting on passwords' 'reading her messages' 'constant monitoring' ? Absolutely its controlling and absolutely it's your problem OP - that you really do need 'to get past'. It's also a gross invasion of someone's privacy.

Your DD is a 16yr old not 8 !. and has the right to privacy. Not your version of what you think should be private and not - that's just not privacy. This sort of behaviour from my mother would have made me deceitful and a lier and achieved the polar opposite of what you want to achieve. It would also have made me plot and plan my escape from home at the earliest opportunity. Parental control to this degree makes young people sneaky and angry.

Your daughters friends will know 'what you are like' This is important. Friends to a 16 yr old can seem to them, far more important than family and definitely more influential. I know what you are doing comes from love and concern, but this really isn't how you are being perceived by her of her friends. You will be labelled the 'weird mother' your daughters friends will be helping her circumvent your (in their eyes) unreasonable behaviour. - hence the spare phone etc.

My daughters have all had friends with the 'weird mothers' desperately trying to prevent them coming into contact with the real world and dealing with/making their own mistakes. These are ALWAYS the ones who are doing the sexting, sending inappropriate pictures, meeting or planning to meet inappropriate boys/men. I think you have to seriously consider if your behaviour has influenced her reaction to you and consequently the rebellious nature of the behaviour ?

My DD's of which I have a fair few - have got through /are going through their teenage years. I want them to come to me when they are worried and concerned about the world outside BUT I have to let them make their own mistakes and decisions and have faith in them coming to me and/or their father should they need help. You can guide and advise , - It's dictating that causes the issues.

Btw - I work on the frontline of law enforcement and see everyday the horrors and evils that are out there. I am not naive, I have seen many young people get into horrific situations.

You have no right to snoop on her and control her like this. I have three teens and I may not like some of what goes on but we are open with each other (to a point) and I would never spy on any of them like that. This is such an unhealthy situation.

And checking someone else's phone does not equal 'good parenting'. It's so much more than that and has to be done differently, sorry but I completely disagree with those who think that they are parenting experts because they have teens. I have three, from 19-13 and I just think that trust has to be gained on both sides.

Completely agree marylin, well said. Someone unthread said "you can spot who hasn't got teenagers" wrt posters disagreeing with the op. I have an 18 year old DD and 14 year old DS and think it's absolutely no wonder her DD is behaving like this because there is no trust.

My mum was like the op, I HATED her
Lied through my teeth about where I was going and who with
The more she tried to lock me down the more I lied
Mind you even she relaxed her grip a bit when I was 16

If she knows that you read her messages and is having written conversations about secret phones, she's either not very smart, being goody or doesn't give a f**k.

I know you mean well but your way isn't working and actually it's creating a dynamic where constructive dialogue is becoming really difficult. You can not protect her from herself and if she's hell bent on being a provocative show off, then there's little you can do. Warn her one last time of the dangers of her behaviour and leave her to it. However, I would remind her that wifi and access to the latest tech is a privilege and not a right and you have no intention of financing her stupidity.

I have DDs of 18 and 15 so seen a lot of this

One thing I think is to remember they are growing up in an environment where porn and sex talk are being normalised for quite young teens. we are fighting back in my house - it's not ok. But important to have that in mind

Couple of recent stories from us - DD2 was repeatedly exposed to porn during school - boy next to her hacking the firewall, showing others how to do it etc. I went crazy when she finally told me - school jumped right on it and sorted - but the point here is the social pressure DD was under. Smart, confident young woman but she preferred to drop the subject than address the issue.

Good friend of dd2 has had what I consider a rape threat over FB messenger. She's 14 and a boy in school thinks it's ok to threaten her. Dd2 knows the boy and reckons he's a decent kid. But it's the lack of inhibition on social media - maybe he doesn't mean it. How can she tell?

My view is you have to arm them for all this as you do in real life stuff. So it's tactics of block/switch off/delete/tell an adult as actually this one is getting out of hand. You won't and can't know all the platforms so it has to be a dialogue. Ideally talking about the good as well as the bad.

They won't talk to you about it if it has become a game of cat and mouse. I like the advice from a pp about talking with her about trust.

As Alonglongway says,the internet and social media give its users a degree of anonymity that can give them a false sense of security/obscurity, where they may think they can say what they like, post what they want without realising the consequences.

The Op is supporting her daughter - it's not like she's banned DD from having BF, resulting in DD sneaking off to see him etc. is some honesty really too much to expect from a 16 yo? (Sure, they're going to lie, but if its about something that could have serious implications, then of course OP should step in).

Sounds like the chat went well OP, just keep those lines of communication open

A lot of the reactions on here to snooping are ridiculous, the OP nor others have said they constantly montior messages or whatever, thiose that have said that they would intervene in a situation like this have said that in the future the trust must be earned back and stuff. I think Zariyah put it best.

"My daughters have all had friends with the 'weird mothers' desperately trying to prevent them coming into contact with the real world and dealing with/making their own mistakes. These are ALWAYS the ones who are doing the sexting, sending inappropriate pictures, meeting or planning to meet inappropriate boys/men."

I'm certainly not thought of as a wierd mum, my DD and her friends have often come to me for advice in situations. This is a sweeping generalisation from my experience it happens just a much with the laid back parents too, which is the scary thing, it can happen no matter what you do. Which is why you have to give some space, but remember that at heart (and in their heads) they are still children and may need some protecting even from themselves.

My dd has a friend whose mum snoops on her messages- and there is no other word for it than snoop when you are checking someone else's messages. It doesn't work, she thinks that it does.

Not doing it doesn't make me 'laid back' either, I am straight on everything and certainly wouldn't be letting smoking etc go on. Just because you think that it's fundamentally wrong to invade a near grown ups private phone records, doesn't make you a crack smoking hippy type parent either. The best reason not to do it, is that it doesn't work and doesn't address the root of the problem.

I too got pretty annoyed at the comments assuming that those who disagreed had not been through difficult teenage years or had toddlers.

I'd only be checking if there was a level of deciet about where she was and what she was doing, if she was putting herslef in danger. Its not a habitual thing.

Sorry to say Lurked, but if you were a 'weird mother' you wouldn't know it ! The children of controlling parents learn from them and only supply controlled information (what the parent wants to hear) and don't announce to their parents that 'my friends think you are a weird control freak'

I am a 'laid back' parent in that I would consider reading my near adult children's messages a gross invasion of privacy, (if that is a definition of laid back!) in reality I don't think of myself that way at all. The children- of which there are many- have always had very clear boundaries about what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Along with clearly demarcated responsibilities such a doing all their own laundry from year 7. Along with those responsibilities comes certain rights , that are earned on the way to adulthood. Respecting your privacy and that of others is right at the beginning of this journey and not a one way street nor is it optional. It's a fundamental human right as laid down in law.

The children I see in the custody suite almost invariably come from the two opposite ends of the parenting spectrum. Sadly those with inadequate/feckless/unable or unwilling parents make up the greatest percentage, however those who refuse to slacken the tight reign of control make up a substantial percentage of the others. It's not a social class thing, there are probably more feckless/unwilling wealthy parents than poor ones however I rarely see children who's parents seem to manage to tread the middle ground, allowing their offspring to make mistakes and learn from them.

Marilyn talks sense.

The thing is OP.. you have set yourself up as the enemy to be deceived because you are on her back the whole time snooping, checking, nosying into her private life.

I have DCs now in their 20's and I just know with one of my DDs, checking up on her would have driven her to deceit. She was not a natural liar and she did listen to me on the whole but I had to let her make her mistakes and luckily they weren't too horrendous.

I had a DM constantly checking up on me at that age. I felt completely and utterly smothered like my life wasn't my own. I moved out at 17 because I couldn't stand it.

You have to show her some trust and not act like the enemy forever snooping and checking. It backfires. Just keep talking to her explaining how things can go wrong, pointing out the pitfalls etc. She might not take it all onboard but some will sink in.

You sound like a parent who is trying to protect your DD from her teenage self. And that is your job

Many parents consider their job to be spending the childs childhood protecting them and teaching them the skills required to protect themselves and post 16 acting as a safety net rather than policing behaviour.

Zariyah was the poster who wrongly assumed that anyone who disagrees with the snooping "doesn't have teens" so hardly a good shout for your argument lurked.