Teen deceit - phones and social media

[Astrocloud]

First time poster here and really don't know what to do next. It's more of a WWYD.

I have a DD of 16 who is consistently deceitful. Mostly around the use of devices and social media and she is, unfortunately, an accomplished liar.

Had a great relationship with her up until a few months ago. Started going downhill shortly before she was 16 (end of Y10/ beginning of Y11). I love her of course but don't like the way she behaves some of the time.

DD is outgoing and independent and has many hobbies we support financially and via ferrying her here, there and everywhere. She also has a boyfriend we facilitate her seeing (he lives a 40 min drive away). We support her in all she wants to do and she knows she is loved.

She has an ipad and the latest iphone. She knows we have her passcode and that we periodically check. We have restrictions on these devices following previous incidents.

Recently I discovered she had downloaded Tinder on her phone and had posted pictures of herself, one in a bikini. I was livid, deleted the account and restricted her phone such that she couldn't download any further apps. I also deleted Snapchat following issues with that too. We have had several discussions and arguments about the dangers of the internet, appropriate use of social media and the like. I don't trust her.

Anyway today Ihave discovered (via checking her messages - she knows that I periodically check her phone now) that her friend's boyfriend is going to give her his old phone so she has a secret one which she can use via wifi without us knowing. God knows what her intentions are. I am upset at this deceit and just don't know what to do and where to go with it.

Joining the Army, having a baby or getting married are things my teen will be doing at 16 over my rotting festering corpse

IMO you are being a very caring and responsible parent. Even though the is 16 she is still a child and she is your child. You're right to check her phone and restrict internet use if she is not obeying the rules you have laid down.
I think you should tell her that you know about the secret phone and change the wifi password for a couple of weeks.
I think some day she will be grateful to you for protecting her.

yes I know that - through bitter experience, I'm not muddying the waters - I am pointing out that the risks our children face are different from the ones we faced and need a different way of thinking

Ghostly, we did have experience with a mid 20s male messaging her when she was 15. I won't detail the comments but you can imagine. Apparently he thought she was 18. DD was uncomfortable with the messages and I do believe she wouldn't have met him etc.

I agree with ghosty the way girls and young women are targeted is so different these this isnt scaremongering its fact my Dd and her friend told another friends mum she was meeting an older man at a flat she met him online of course girl fell out with Dd and friend for a while but they were worried.

Astro my story isnt meant to scare you was just trying to highlight a point iyswim

The more you punish this the more deceitful she will be, the behaviour will continue and you will know less. You need to drum it into her educate her on the consequences and risks, rebuild trust and at 16 she should be entitled to some privacy. She will still make naïve mistakes and need your guidance.

You need to find out why she is doing this and educate her further on internet safety. If you tell her and it isn't getting across look for support from school, police (community officer/school police), NSPCA etc etc for support or other tactics you can try.

My friend's teenage daughter used social media a lot and one day the FBU phoned up my friend to inform him that his daughter was being targetted by "a person of interest to the FBI" and lettign him know they were going for all IM, facebook posts, emails etc that this person had sent to quite a lot of young girls.
Turns out he was a serial groomer of young teenage girls - so you really are not over-reacting - however, rather than removing devices your daughter needs to educated on the very real dangers of what she is doing - it is the equivalent of putting your photo and contact details in a phone box in a red light district. Teens think they are internet savvy but most of them are like toddlers with their parent's gun.

Sorry - meant to say the FBI!!!!

I would try asking her what her bf would think of the Tinder account.

I'm sorry but she is 16! You can only really give her advice at that age, you can't dictate how she lives her life. You sound very controlling.

I disagree with this statement - both parts of it.

Firstly, you do not sound controlling to me. You sound like a parent who is trying to protect your DD from her teenage self. And that is your job.

I think there is a degree of truth to the first part of the statement above, in as much as she really does need good advice (clearly), but yes, you can dictate how she runs her life to some extent. She is a minor, living under your roof, financially and emotionally supported by you. And if you were to back down and say to yourself, 'hey, she's sixteen, I'll just leave her to it' in my opinion, you would be letting her down. It's your job to do your best to protect her, and that is obviously what you are trying really hard to do.

I have four teens, so I am thinking with a somewhat experienced mind...she knows you look at her phone periodically - FWIW I think you are doing the right thing, both checking and doing so with her knowledge. She has after all given you reason for concern, and she knows this to be the case. In fact, IMO, you've done everything right so far :-)

I think you're going to have to confront her and put the ball in her court. She needs to think about how she can win your trust back, and to understand that she isn't going about it the right way at the moment!

Also, personally I'm not up for removing all technology...but in this instance would be saying no phones/devices upstairs. You can't completely control what she does (far from it), but you can make it harder for her to take inappropriate pictures of herself, and she might resent this, but she can understand that you love her and are doing your 'job'.

As someone who had a 14 year old dd post pics like this, talk to older boys on social media and would have gone out to meet one of them knowing fuck all about him other than a pic on Facebook, had I not been checking her social media accounts and texts, I understand exactly why you are checking up on her.

My dd did have self esteem issues which no one would ever have guessed. The Tinder thing sounds like her way of getting validation from anyone for the way she looks.

My dd went though counselling and we went to family counselling also- she's 18 now and the change in her is amazing

Imo We think of low self esteem as being quiet and with drawn but it can be the opposite apperances can be deceptive

Thank you Fourkids and Tantrums for tour considered posts, especially with so much experience.

Tantrums, how did you broach / discuss / decide the counselling aspect?

Can school guidance help you out or a local police liason? I know our schools have a lot of internet safety focus and the local liason officer would be happy to speak to any parent concerned. I wouldn't know who to ask for, but school could certainly tell me. I know of schools who have taken images from publicly accesible sites - teens aren't known for their privacy settings - and coming into class to find their pictures projected on screensaver on the wall. Pics the kids probably don't want their mum's / teachers others to see! But they are there, could you or someone you know pull together a list of pics publicly available and point out to her that any future employer (and she is near that age) can find these? It isn't a focus on the tinder and private stuff for sure, but its just another possible way of going about a conversation? Acknowledging that she is heading towards a new more grown up stage of life and making good decisions with that in mind.
I may be completely wrong, I'm a while off the stage you are at.

For what's it's worth I think you sound like a great mum, and she will thank you one day if you can just get the communication lines re-opened.

One last thought, you said it started at a certain time Y10/11 - could there have been a trigger incident(s) for the behaviour? Not a nice thought I know but just wondering.....

I think it had for us got to crisis point and she knew it.
When she attempted to meet this person- i don't know if it hit home how stupid it was or she just went along to the counselling to get me off her back but whatever it was it worked.
This wasn't the first incident with her, she "ran away" twice. I say ran away- what she actually did was sneak out to meet her friend in the middle of the night through her bedroom window and then didn't know how to come home so went to school. We had the police looking for her, it was a nightmare time tbh

how old is the friend's boyfriend? Id be concerned about his intentions. Sadly teens are often encouraged to do these kind of things by some calculating men / older teens. Id be very suprised if his intention was for her to use his phone without contacting him in some way. And id be suprised if it wasnt some sort of early move.

I often wonder on threads like these if people saying that the op is controlling have any actual real experience of dealing with teenagers, and what creates more vulnerable teenagers, than the fact they were once teens themselves or they have one or two...

16 is a child. Yes they could get married in scotland, but she probably shouldnt. although not sure op said she was in scotland so that isnt relevant at all. In columbia and other countries she could marry at 12. Does that mean all 12 year olds are adults? Of course it Doesnt.

Sit down with her and have a conversation about this. What does she want from the tinder accounts? How can you as a family addreas those needs?

teenandtween so you think by demanding passwords and scouring her social media accounts, and then confiscating her phone / laptop if you find something you don't like, is going to stop a 16 years old having unprotected sex? If so then you're very naive!

lottie I didn't say that.
But I do think that for certain teens a level of monitoring can help enable parents to play interference on some of the more risky behaviour.

not a lot of use to add but wanted to say i dont' think you're being controlling - you are caring and being an active parent. as someone who didn't have that as a teen i can tell you i wish that i did.

vulnerability comes from lack of parental knowledge and 'interference' for want of a better word. whether they neglect out of super cool hands off motives or sheer disinterest doesn't make much difference.

Good luck in your somewhat futile efforts to restrain your child fom life.
On a positive mote I wish I knew the recipe of good relationships between kids and parents. If anyone knows it, please share.

I agree with Peggy Blomquist's post.

You have to let her make her own mistakes and deal with the consequences otherwise she will never learn. She is now being secretive and keeping things from you as she senses and feels your disapproval. She is a young adult and you cannot keep her on a piece of string, she is probably going to make awful mistakes, but they are mistakes that she won't make more than once.

My DM was very nosey about what I was doing as a teenager as a consequence I never told her anything (much to her annoyance) and told downright lies about things that I was doing that I knew she wouldn't approve of, because it just seemed so much easier. I wanted a private life, and not her judgement and opinion on what I was doing.
If your DD is outgoing and confident that is a positive sign.

Ouch icing that was nasty.

The girl is 16, yes she can have a baby, join the army and do other things. But while she lives under her Mother's roof, and her Mother foots the bill, her Mother has final word on almost all decisions. I'm not controlling but I want to know where my daughter is and who she is with etc.

I have a 16 year old girl, I'm also a teacher and from both sides I think that parents need to have an idea of what their children are getting up to online, the stuff that I have heard about from DD and dealt with at school is shocking.

Have you specified exactly what you're concerned about to her? Have you sat down and talked to her, treat her like an adult (as she's so clearly determined to be 'all grown up'). You can't tell her not to do things without giving your exact reasons for what you're implementing.
Pictures on the Internet belongs on everyone and anyone - revenge porn sites anyone? Prospective employers check social media - if she gives off the wrongs image she may never get a decent job.

She risks ruining her relationship with her bf by flirting on tinder. Who knows who she could end up meeting? Maybe find some examples of young girls who have made the mistakes you want her to avoid... I'm pretty sure they all thought it 'wouldn't happen to me' too.

If you go making 'unreasonable' demands (in her eyes), without explaination she isnt going to listen and you could risk pushing her further away.

Don't know if putting a password on the wifi would help any? (Might let on that you know about the secret phone though)

It's better to be posting on here asking this question than in a few months posting "my DD is in trouble - Pg with STIs, meeting strangers". Can't believe the posters who say you shouldn't interfere

Can I just clarify something here as I think some people have misunderstood some aspects.

She was without her phone for only 2 weeks

She has never had her laptop confiscated.

I don't "scour" all her social networking sites (of which she twitter, whatsapp, instagram and Facebook). I check her messages periodically, with her knowledge. I certainly didn't demand all her passwords. I only know her phone passcode.