To think there is very little benefit in earning more than 50k

[ReallyTired]

Loss of child benefit and now reduction in pension tax relief makes hardly worth bursting a gut to earn over 50k. People who earn just over 50k are generally the work horses in skilled jobs that ecomony needs to grow. Given that such people will be saddled with high student loans in the future, what will senior teachers, doctors gain from all their hard work?

NewLife:

"Oh yes," said the Captain, "Millions of them. Hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants, you name them. We're going to colonize another planet."

People who have a lot more money than those around them, and think it is important, have to perform mental gymnastics to justify their position to themselves.

It would be too painful to accept that they have been lucky, so they have to convince themselves that they must be superior to the others, perhaps by innate ability, perhaps by hard work, perhaps by good breeding, perhaps by race, caste or nationality. This enables them to believe that poorer people are therefore intrinsically inferior.

You will see this displayed in, for example. Deep South racists, LIBOR market-riggers, Donald Trump, and it is portrayed in Loadsamoney

Amazingly, the theory has been tested, and it works, even if the money is not real!
www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_does_money_make_you_mean/transcript?language=en

I love that Paul Piff study.

How can a long standing poster not recognise Deo immediately, Kew??

Becasue at my advanced age (being a "long standing poster" n'all) I have the memory of a goldfish.

On the other hand it has the advantage of me being able to judge every poster on the content of what they say on one specific thread. No doubt next time I come across Deo I will have forgotten who she is again... only to have my high expectations of someone with her advantages crushed once more

I'm not suggesting that Xenia or Judy1234 is a liar. You never know who is behind a user name on an anomenous forum like mumsnet. It's fun having a chat with someone that you don't know. People can write what they like and there is no way of knowing if its true and provided that they aren't outright trolling it doesn't really matter.

It's basic Internet safety to not totally trust what complete strangers say on face value. The message is heavily hammered home in year 1 in state schools.

Dunno who these people are, but whatever, Deo might be telling the truth about her "success" but she certainly doesn't manage to endear herself or manage to put forward a coherent and relevant argument for her theories.

Her dismissive attitude toward any opinion (even one back up with facts), and high handedness, and disparaging remarks towards those who she deems are not "working hard" are quite frankly disgraceful and show an almost sociopathic level of empathy.

She absolutely is who she says, I know who she is in real life. I do wonder if she doesn't realise that it might affect her career, the things that she writes on here, obviously not though.

I did a bit of digging and the facts she gives away make her pretty easy to identify.

I was correct in my guess about her, she's not as "successful" as she makes out, She certainly isn't at the zenith of her particluar field.

Can I just say , neither am I, but I don't beat people round the head with my work ethic and scantimonious attitude.

Please don't get this thread deleted by trying to identify who a poster is in ro.

It's ok for Deo not to be at the zenith of her field. She has enough sucess to make her happy.

Exactly! She's fine, but needs to be a bit nicer to people.

I purposely didn't say anything that would identifty her.

"My 5 children are all very different and I think that's wonderful. A world of socialist produced clones would not be good."

What an interesting way of thinking Deo, please do elaborate?

My lefty sis and I were brought up by socialist parents, and we're not clones last time I looked.

Do you really think your politics has something to do with your DC having different personalities and interests from each other?

How does that work then?

We all know how it works- look at North Korea. Look at the old Cuba. Look at the old Eastern bloc. Socialists want everyone to be the same, produced in factories almost with no individuality. The right is the party of liberty and difference and is the better route. As for whether I am successful or not, I am pretty happy with what I have achieved. I've nothing to prove. I don't think I lie on line or in life. Life is good not least because I am happy and healthy as well as successful and have al ovely family - you can't get much better than that. The key to the success is not just hard work but really basic things that keep you healthy and happy like not getting fat, not eating junk food, drinking water, not smoking, moving and all that basic stuff which I encourage everyone to do and won't cost you a penny. Nothing makes people more miserable than feeling ill.

I tend not to be nasty to anyone actually. It's one reason I'm quite successful. i think people would be hard pressed to find a single personal attack from me against anyone on or off line. I am the arch peace maker, the pretty good mediator and one of the nicest things about our home is not the 5000 sq feet, private road or anything like that - it's the peace within it.

Go forth in peace my brethren. There is much to do and much to learn for all of us.....

Socialism is a funny word, it means what you want it to.

Are Swedes identical clones toiling in Orwellian factories?

Were your trainers and handbag made by 12 year olds in a Capitalist sweatshop?

Deo - stop being coy. You make nasty weeping comments about swathes of people. Just because you don't point out a particular poster doesn't change the fact.

Deo sometimes you come out with some interesting points - but for some one so well read the goady Socialism posts are a little passe.

As mentioned above, look to the Scandinavian countries for your examples.

Deo I also think you're getting socialism and communism confused - perhaps deliberately for effect. It's a bit hard to engage with someone that you suspect is being deliberately goady.

Yeah I look at Denmark at least and thank my lucky stars that I don't live there. I would not be able to have he career I want in Denmark. The childcare just isn't available for the likes of me. Don't be fooled. Also from a tax perspective with 3 kids I couldn't afford to work. DH is danish and works for a danish company. There is one woman at the top and she is about to leave. The childcare costs kill it for her. She and her husband are moving to Germany. There is a real talent shortage because it doesn't pay to work in a professional job. Everyone MUST have the same living standard.

DH has a hard time because when they hear DH drives a nice car etc they assume he is being dishonest. It really grates. While they were sitting in their armchair DH was studying for his MBA and always works in excess of their 35hr/wk. They forget that.

Plus it's our income that has saved my SIL from losing her home. She has been really sick, in part because she hasn't looked after health, so not able to work. She was given £700 a month to live off, including housing, while they determined if she was disabled or not. It took them 5 months to figure out that she can only work for 13 minutes a day. Thank goodness we had the money to help her. She would have lost her home otherwise. However in Denmark that's their way of taking care of you. She would have been moved to available social housing. No guarentee of location or its suitability for her disabilities.

Anecdotes about one country do not equal a good analysis of an economic system.

Funny when you discuss socialism you don't equate it with the fact that there are no examples in the world of a truly free market economy and that most countries are mixed, with some elements of both.

There is some argument for the fact that after 2008 the wealthy have benefited from socialism and the poor have been given free market ecomincs

"Socialists want everyone to be the same, produced in factories almost with no individuality. The right is the party of liberty and difference and is the better route."

Deo do you believe that? Really?

Who are these socialists who want everyone to be the same? I know lots - and am one - and I don't recognise the description.

Indeed, the left wing has a long history of tolerance of difference and celebrating diversity, that often seems to be lacking on the right.

Who are you thinking of exactly? Do they really exist or is this a figment of your imagination?

I'm still baffled why these high achievers are so rubbish at arguing in support of their views.

I guess they're so busy bearing the economy of their country on their shoulders they aren't giving their full attention to what they're arguing.

If they could just shrug their burden for a short while they could teach us a thing or two!

I just love the idea of a senior teacher earning £50k. A deputy head may just be on this.
I am a senior teacher and get less than £40 k.
Exh pays maintenance, half the mortgage and his own rent - and sill had more left than my total pay ... Out of which I pay half the mortgage and the household bills ... He pays higher rate tax. Would be nice to have some money for fun!

I'd actually say that your quote regarding socialists is what capitalists want, little worker drones who don't complain and doff their caps.

The list of things that are beneficial to liberty is far longer for liberal and left parties than it is for the right. The right only really care about the rights of those who are in charge or who have wealth.