To think there is very little benefit in earning more than 50k

[ReallyTired]

Loss of child benefit and now reduction in pension tax relief makes hardly worth bursting a gut to earn over 50k. People who earn just over 50k are generally the work horses in skilled jobs that ecomony needs to grow. Given that such people will be saddled with high student loans in the future, what will senior teachers, doctors gain from all their hard work?

deo

I am guessing its a long time since you had an appraisal

When i worked full time there were different gradings one was "meets expectations" that was the one you needed if you didnt want to be sacked

"Exceeds expectations" was the hard work one

Its not difficult to not get sacked for not working...its difficult to progress through the many companys that dont "allow" progression (ie tescos) no matter how hard you work

Deo that's not hard work to turn up on time and not skivving around. That' the minimum in my book.
Hard work is going over the board from that....

Reallytired, the "quality of life" point you made there is very different to the one that you made in the OP which was about financial issues. Fine don't take it if you don't think the remuneration is enough, but don't imply that you didn't take it cause you'd lose a bit of child benefit.

Woody Allen was once asked the secret of his success - I turned up, he said, turned up on time for alljobs as required. I've done that for 30 years, no maternity leaves, no breaks, no sick leave. I still think one reason I do very well is because of that. Come hell or high water I am always here, always the reliable stable one who lets no one down. I don't agree that unreliable workers have a job for life. My son is a postman currently and his colleagues don't last if they aren't on time or are always off sick etc. There may be some state employers such as employers of teachers and the like where it is hard to give useless people the sack but that's the exception not the rule. you are out on your ear if you don't work hard and I do count turning up on time as working hard.

I accept that you may be told by colleagues to slow up - at royal mail if you finish rounds quickly you get given another so there may be things in systems at various places which work against your being efficient but my general comment stands - that if you work hard and I include at school in that - you tend to do better in life. One of my teenagers said he'd never really worked at school until GCSEs (when he did pretty well) and how suddenly he was doing very well - well why young man is that so surprising, laughing as I type. It's pretty obvious. you put in the effort and you get the results.

Those of us who have also worked two jobs know that that can pay too even though it's very hard work indeed to do it. I used to see 5 - 7am Saturday as a core 2 working hours when the twins were babies for example.

Lets all bow down to your magnificence Deo, no one works
as hard or is deserving as you.

Actually I'm starting to regard your posts as a little unbelievable.

Lurked, Deo's posts are all true - she is quite well known under a previous name.
She actually truly is the superwoman type - but can't believe that not everyone is the same as her, that sometimes hard work breaketh the (wo)man rather than maketh.

I feel SO sorry for those on over 50k!
Must be bloody awful, all that worry.

and i can choose not to believe the hyperbole bunny, pinch of salt and all that.

I actually do feel sorry for those on and above 50k, in fact I have sympathy for those on 75k as well.
It's not how much money you earn, but how satisfied you are with life and the standard of life you have.
If all your money is paying for domestic staff, tax, childcare, mortgage, cars, commuting, etc there isn't going to be much left to enjoy yourself.

I am happier earning a fraction of this and after necessary bills are paid have a decent standard of living with much more disposable income than those who earn shed loads but have nothing left over.
That's skiving by some people's standards as I don't like working, so don't do it.

I am happier earning a fraction of this and after necessary bills are paid have a decent standard of living with much more disposable income than those who earn shed loads but have nothing left over.
That's skiving by some people's standards as I don't like working, so don't do it

oooh,..Shame on you - It is a sin not to be a workaholic high achiever these days!

Gottaget

I know, I'm so terrible.

I think Deo is right if you look at it from the belief system that you should work, work,work all your life and this is what success is, working for other people. Success is how much money your services are worth and seeing success as being down to hard work, academic achievement and being driven to earn more money.

I see success in everything but this, like our marriage, our children, our home, how we have managed our money, investment, quality of life, friendships, etc.

"I see success in everything but this, like our marriage, our children, our home, how we have managed our money, investment, quality of life, friendships, etc."

Madonna has more money than anyone on this thread. (Even Deo!) Yet all her money cannot make her eldest son want to live with her. She is desperate for what many of us on lower incomes take for granted.

Money does not make someone happy, but it's preferable to be rich and unhappy to being poor and unhappy. There is a certain level of wealth needed to feel socially included. Maybe a family on 55k in South Kensington might suffer relative poverty compared to their neighbours. Certainly outside London it's possible to have a good life on a lot less than 50k. Some parts of the country allow a good life on an income of 25k.

Money gives you freedom and choices. However lack of time can take away choices. You can be cash rich and time poor or vice versa. Most of us aim for a balance in the middle.

Well if I ever get to 50k will comment, (post grad, engineering twenty years+ experience getting industry average wage).

ReallyTired

I really agree with you and would add that one person's poverty is another person's luxury, depending on how materialistic you are and what is important to you.
An example would be the threads asking if a poster can afford private schools on 100k+ type of figures.
When asked to break down their costs there are so many that lots of people on here wouldn't need or want, but of course are relevant to the poster asking. I read one which said 10k for holidays, which aren't important to me or my family, not at that price anyway.
Not that there is anything wrong with a 10k holiday btw, their to their own.

each to their own, not sure I'm with it today

I tell you what though, having had OFSTED in during the last few days it certainly felt like no wage was worth that pressure! I have an empty house tonight and I'm going to put up my feet and eat my body weights worth in chocolate ( best avoid the wine as the stress of getting the call on Monday drove me to have a fag for the first time in years).

My point wasn't I was wonderful, but that anyone can do what I do if they work at it.

Also by the way someo of us high earners are very very satisfied with our lives - if you are afford not to have to clean the house and have the money and power and control that having your own business gives you you have a better life than low earners, not a worse life (although some low earners like to con themselves that those with more money have worse lives).

I don't think those with more money have worse lives, but after a fairly modest level of income, increased money doesn't buy you happiness. I have a high income but I value lots of things above this: a loving relationship, happy children, good health, good friends. Money makes a poor substitute for any of these.

The trick is knowing what is important and following that. I will always believe in hard work. It's worked so far for both DH and I.

Having said that I went into labour last night at 36 weeks. They stopped it because they want me to get to 37 weeks but the doctor has said I must stop working unless it's from home.

While we are very fortunate to have money we also have amazing friends. I called my friend and she ran over and slept on our sofa while DH took me in. Yes we can buy help but in situations like that I was far more comfortable with our DC being with a close friend of the family.

I don't know Deo, you keep giving these examples (no materinity leave, twins that you worked while having) either you're a fantasist or are actually fortunate that you were able to do this. As much as you'd like to think its a case of mind over matter, it really isn't and fortune has a lot to do with it.

Would you for example have been able to do what you did if you'd experienced extreme difficulties in pregnancy? Had debilitating PND? If one or more of your children needed round the clock care? All of which are out of your hands, and very much in fortunes gift to give and take away.

I'm also sure that some low earners have a "better life" than you do, condesending much?

I am with the OP , I deliberately kept my income below 50k between 2011 and 2015 (by working part time) then when straight to 75k( ft) for me it needed to be that to make it worth it. I wouldn't have done it for less. Oh and if any one care take home on 49 after pension etc was 2900 on 75 it's 3700 ( nhs pension contributions also increase the more you earn). I work another 2 days each week for that £800, I was getting £134 CHB so just £76 a day or £9.50 per hour if I had to pay child care for 2 under 5's it still wouldn't be worth it.

Money does not make someone happy, but it's preferable to be rich and unhappy to being poor and unhappy

Or, as I once heard years ago - Money can't make you happy. But it's more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle

To be clear I get £76 for each of the "extra " 2 days I work. That wouldn't cover childcare for 2 under 5s.

"Money can't make you happy. But it's more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle "

Which is what the rich who are unhappy comfort themselves with when they see a poorer yet happier person.

They're not under 5 for long though, I mentioned previously for about 3 years (following the birth of my youngest) the equivalent of my entire take home wage went on childcare - but that short term pain was worth it in the long run.

Once both kids were at school we felt flush, by the time we stopped paying childcare altogether we almost didn't know what to do with all the money we suddenly had spare.

(But now I'm a single mum on sickness benefit I'm seeing the other end of the spectrum too!).
Still happy though, I get to actually see my children before & after school every day now that I can't work, and I'm no longer thrown curveballs like last minute shift changes and having to go and work away for weeks/months on end.

Swings and roundabouts, you cut your cloth accordingly.