To think there is very little benefit in earning more than 50k

[ReallyTired]

Loss of child benefit and now reduction in pension tax relief makes hardly worth bursting a gut to earn over 50k. People who earn just over 50k are generally the work horses in skilled jobs that ecomony needs to grow. Given that such people will be saddled with high student loans in the future, what will senior teachers, doctors gain from all their hard work?

Become like us, join us in our club, fuck the rest. It works very well because those who are worthy get in the club and the worthless are left to reflect on their own failings.

Deo, if you're British you have benefited from Socialist policies!

Living in the US I see the UK talk socialism and practice capitalism. In the US they talk capitalism and practice socialism.

DS is 3. The school district, via taxes paid, are paying out about $50k a year for his program including speech and occupational therapy. They are adding physical therapy sessions too. When I read the SN boards here it breaks my heart that people in the UK are paying so much in taxes and not getting anywhere near the same help. I mean how many kids get a reading specialist to help a child before they have started reading because they know there will be a delay?

In the UK we would be paying for these services out of pocket or going without if we didn't earn enough.

Rubbish, lots of people get help with SN kids in the UK and its provided by the state. You pay your extra local taxes for the help that you receive from the school district, and often provision is on a lottery of the type of area in which you live. Your services may not be available to everyone in the US, therapies are available to everyone in the UK on the NHS.

My DS needed speech therapy and got it, my DN needed occupational therapy. Provision is of a high standard in the UK.

Also, you see examples of both socialism and capitalism in both as the are mixed economies.

Well I have had plenty of parents tell me otherwise lurked. DS has 2 hours of speech a week and is in a FT ABA program. Apparently for his age this is highly unusual. I'm only repeating what others have told me on here and back home in the North West.

His progress has been insane and it's great that the focus here is on each child reaching their potential. Spend per child in our school district is $25k, in part because we are in a high cost area, in the same way London is a high cost area.

SN provision in the uk does exist. We have an NHS thay is available to all regardless of income or employment status.

But your taxes are hypothecated for only the area that you live in, not share$d throughout the country, the NHS ensures that we have some equality, that is not the case in the US.

We have extremely good services for children here, there are gaps yes, but I can't think of anyone I know that has a child that has needs that haven't had services provided. However, the most needy take priority.

Please don't tell the US, one of the world's most unequal societies, practices socialism either.

Lurked - what is clear to me is that there is zero point trying to have a discussion with someone who is so clearly blinded by their political beliefs. It saddens me that you are a teacher because I don't see someone who is able to accept that things might in RL not be what you think they are.

I live here. We thought about returning to the UK because we thought the provision would be better. It isn't better in the UK for our DS. If fact we were told they shouldn't have diagnosed him based on his age. If he wasn't diagnosed he would get zilch in the UK for his autism. Yes he has a speech delay but his schedule of therapy here covers more than that singular issue.

I am certainly smiling that we are arguing with socialists about how wonderful UK provision of the disabled is - not something they tend to go on about but there we are. Whatever we vote most of us support at least some kind of welfare state. However Uk taxes have got so high recently that you lose the incentive on the higher earners to work hard and we need them to stay engaged.

I'm not politically one sided. The provision in the states is good in some areas but is unequally provided. Kids with needs in deprived areas get very little. I don't think it's great all over, but it doesn't depend on how much tax is paid on the area you live in. I'm actually a great advocate of hard work myself, but feel the need to acknowledge that it isn't all that it takes.

I'm surprised you think taxes for higher earners are high deo, they're fairly low compared to historic levels.

The taxes in the uk are higher now because they have removed exemptions. We are also a global marketplace when it comes to taxes. We bring home an extra £175k a year by virtue of living in the US where we are subject to different tax laws compared to Denmark and the UK. Bet you didn't know the tax take in the UK for higher earners is about the same between Denmark and the UK. Big wigs in Denmark are talking about moving their jobs to Germany. They could decrease pay by 20% and have the same salary after taxes.

"Socialists want everyone to be the same, produced in factories almost with no individuality"

That's exactly what capitalists want. Even been to a call centre?

So the research published actually says that success its not about how hard you work at school or your own personal choices, but that in most cases it is down to the advantages your parents can get you:

"thus parents in more advantaged class positions will respond to any expansion or reform of the educational system by using their own superior resources – economic, cultural and social – to whatever extent it takes to help their children retain a competitive edge in the system and in turn in the labour market."

So basically education changes to improve mobility are nullified by those already in positions of privillege as they work hard to change the barriers to entry.

Oh Deo, Oh Want2b how does it feel to have your "hardwork and personal choices" mantra proved distinctly wrong? How does it feel to have it proven to you that your pronouncements, judgements and views on society are so crucially flawed?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/12/uk-education-reforms-not-helped-social-mobility

However, I think many people realised a long time ago that this is what happens.

To get started in many careers now it is necessary not just to have a relevant degree, but to have undertaken significant work experience, spent holidays from university doing this as well as post graduation, and start on a fairly low salary. To get into really in demand jobs the barriers are often so high that unless you have significant parental support and/or connections then it would be impossible for an individual to get into that profession.

This means that we have a country where those who are able, yet from socio-economic backgrounds where parental support is not financially feasible find it extremely difficult to get on. Where as the less able, but whose parents can support them, find their route to these careers much easier.

It is not an issue of educational standards or work ethic but a sociertal problem:

"To look to the educational system itself to provide a solution to the problem of inequality of opportunity is to impose an undue burden on it. Rather, a whole range of economic and social policies is needed.”

Which is what I have argued on this thread repeatedly whilst being sniped at by those who cannot believe that their own success is not just entirley there own doing.

Vindicated, I think.

This is one piece of research looking at one aspect. What I have seen is that employers have been left totally confused by the different exams brought in. the GNVQ and BTEC qualifications are almost worthless for many because employers don't know what they are. Meanwhile we have had rampant grade inflation for GCSEs and A'Levels with more and more people taking perceived softer subjects at A'Level.

As a child of the 80s I remember sitting my A'Levels over a 2 week period and being shocked to find out once at university that my peers had been able to take softer subjects over a 3 year period to obtain the same grades as me to gain entry to the course. The modules they had retaken were not shown as resists while if I had taken my exams a second time they would have been. The required grades for my course were BBB with resit grades of AAB. My boyfriend at the time had first time grades of CCDE but resat until he had 4 A's.

This is one reason why employers started to look at experience rather than grades.

"This is one piece of research looking at one aspect" Yet clearly sets out that the arguments you and Deo have used here are incorrect. Far more reliable and relevant than your anecdotal evidence. Of course your not going to agree with it, cause as I said it makes your zeal about your own success a little harder to justify.

"What I have seen is that employers have been left totally confused by the different exams brought in. the GNVQ and BTEC qualifications are almost worthless for many because employers don't know what they are"

Empolyers are well aware of BTEC qualifications, they have been around in some form since the 1930s, and awarded as BTEC since the early 90s, you'd have to be a twit to be confused by them as they have been around in this form for over 25 years.

I took A levels, I also taught them, there is very little in the way of dumbing down. The language they are presented in became more accessible, and some syllabuses cut out content that was either obselete or not relevant.

Employers started asking for experience and internships instead of grades because it made a) their training cheaper and b) the more middle class graudates whose parents were able to help them started doing it to get ahead as others were now competing for the jobs as they had degrees (which used to be the barrier to entry) too!

The study proves this quite conclusively, also others in the past have shown that too!