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AIBU?

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Original poster

Friend overdosed. Wtf to do?

227 replies

Littlefluffyclouds81 · 29/02/2016 19:31

My friend/neighbour has not been answering her phone all day and I just went to check on her. She's had a bit of a shit time of it lately so I was worried.

Found her in bed (I've got a key). She's taken 15 tramadol last night. She was trying to end it. She is conscious and pissed off that she's still here. Her head is hurting and she's feeling sick. I said she needs to go to hospital but she got really angry and said she will never forgive me if I call an ambulance. She said if she still feels bad tomorrow she'll go then.

I guess if she was going to die that would have happened by now but I'm worried she could have caused herself some serious damage. I've taken all the pills I can find in the house away from her and said I'll be back to check on her once dd2 is in bed. I really think she needs to get checked over but she is not at all happy with that suggestion. What should I do?

OP posts:
ShesGotLionsInHerHeart · 29/02/2016 21:58

Going to hospital tonight doesn't mean they're sending an ambulance for her, evidently.

TheAussieProject · 29/02/2016 21:59

Well done, OP.

SealSong · 29/02/2016 21:59

She needs her mental state assessing, which would happen if she went to hospital.

ShesGotLionsInHerHeart · 29/02/2016 21:59

I'm not saying there's no risk, but if they thought it was an emergency, an ambulance would have been despatched, as I'm sure would have been the case had the OP phoned 24 hours ago.

almondpoisson · 29/02/2016 22:00

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2305936/Tramadol-When-safe-option-painkiller-turns-lethal.html
15 tramadol tablets is a hefty dose for liver damage, and may well cause death. Opioid overdoses need to be treated properly - some of the effects are reversible entirely if treated in the proper way (eg respiratory depression and sedation) who was on 111 is irrelevant because OP's friend still needs medical attention immediately.

MummySparkle · 29/02/2016 22:01

OP, can you call your local big hospital with an a&e and ask to speak to the mental health crisis team. Tell them what has happened and they will be able to advise from a MH perspective. They may well say that she needs to come in to be assessed, although more often than not they want everyone to be checked over first to make sure that they are medically fit before they will see them.
I know your friend may seem like she is talking rationally now, but what happens when you go? How do you know she's not just saying / acting that she's fine just to get you to go away?
I don't think that this is something that you can deal with by yourself, and I am surprised that 111 didn't suggest that she should be seen by a MH professional. Did you get put through to someone or get a call back from 111, or just speak to the person that answered the phone?

toastandbutterandjam · 29/02/2016 22:04

I've been in your situation OP.

One of my best friends took an overdose when we were 16. I was the only person she had in her life. She told me not to call anyone because she just wanted to be dead, she would hate me, I was awful if I did that etc. My 16 year old self went off and called an ambulance. She wouldn't be here today if I didn't. She was ill and she sees that now. She is so grateful I got her help.

I remember this convo with her at the time:
She said "I've taken an overdose, I don't want help, I want to be dead. If you break my trust, I will never speak to you again. I will hate you till I take my last breath."

I just simply said "If you don't want help, you wouldn't have told me what you've done. Feel free to hate me all you like. I'd rather you lived and hated me than died and loved me. I have to break your trust because I love you. "

Maybe not the best thing to say, but I was 16 and not equipped to deal with the situation.

I lost another of my best friends before christmas in a tragic accident. Losing a friend is devastating. I can't describe the heartbreak.

I really hope your friend is okay and gets the help she needs.
Look after yourself as well.

Lots of love OP. You sound like a truly wonderful friend Flowers xx

nosupport · 29/02/2016 22:04

There may be no physical emergency although whose to tell, without a blood test there's simply no way of knowing how much or what is in her system or how it will affect her

But there IS a mental health emergency - and OP your not equipped to handle it right now.

Disclosure: I have been that friend. Call a fucking taxi if not an ambulance

TendonQueen · 29/02/2016 22:04

I was about to say what's in the post above. The nurse on 111 didn't say call an ambulance but she did advise going to hospital tonight. Calling an ambulance is the easiest way to make that happen and overcome any objections - the paramedics will be used to dealing with stuff like that. No one would blame you OP for calling an ambulance, even if it's not a 999 issue right now.

almondpoisson · 29/02/2016 22:09

OP I am going now and I'm sorry if I have been abrasive but it is THAT IMPORTANT THAT YOU ACT RIGHT AWAY. That is what saves lives.
Your friend made a real attempt and you discovered her unconscious. She is not safe now. I think the options for me would be
a. go to A&E - now- by some means of transportation
b. call out of hours GP for urgent assessment or call A&E
c. calling Samaritans and getting her to talk to someone will be a good idea in the interim
You're a good friend, but while she may rage at you temporarily for taking action, she'll be around to thank you later, perhaps a long time later, but for saving her life.

almondpoisson · 29/02/2016 22:11

Yes if you drive or know someone who drives, or take a taxi to get there. If she's breathing and conscious you don't 'need an ambulance' but you DO need A&E. Does that make sense? It may be a good idea to pack a small bag but that can all be done later as well. She needs to be seen tonight.

Original poster
Littlefluffyclouds81 · 29/02/2016 22:17

I'm still with her now. We have been chatting and laughing but she is sleepy. This is sort of normal for her, in that she will have something shitty happen with her divorce, and take a load of pills (usually Valium), then take to her bed for a day or two. Then she picks herself up and is her normal cheery self again until the next time. She seems ok at the moment, mentally anyway, although I am worried about her liver. I've explained all that to her, but she is insisting she wants to go in the morning.

OP posts:
Ubik1 · 29/02/2016 22:17

Paramedics can't force someone to go to hospital you know.

Op - take 111 advice. Try to persuade your friend to go with you to A&E.
What an awful situation for you.

If you called 111 back do you think your friend would speak to the nurse or OOH GP? They might be able to persuade her.

nosupport · 29/02/2016 22:22

She's not ok mentally.

Regardless of whether she's laughing and chatting with you now.

SealSong · 29/02/2016 22:24

I know paramedics can't force anyone. But they can suggest or try to persuade, and if they have sufficient concern for someone's mental state they have the option to involve the police, not that I'm suggesting that's what should happen here.

PigletJohn · 29/02/2016 22:25

The way I see it:

Friend has OD'd. Says, I'm sleepy, I want to go to bed, I don't want to go to hospital, leave me alone.

compare

Friend has drunk two bottles vodka. Says, I'm fine, I don't need a taxi, I'll drive, leave me alone.

TealLove · 29/02/2016 22:33

I can't bear this thread anymore. I honestly can't believe this woman isn't being assessed after a very serious suicide attempt. I'm off.

Original poster
Littlefluffyclouds81 · 29/02/2016 22:35

She at no point has wanted me to leave her alone. I had to leave earlier to put dd2 to bed but she was happy that I was coming back. I think she's been glad that I've been with her for the last few hours. If I called an ambulance she would refuse to go to hospital. I'm going to stay with her until she's asleep then drive her to hospital first thing.

OP posts:
nosupport · 29/02/2016 22:40

She could be fucking sleepy due to the tablets she's taken

Suicide attempt or self harm. She's unwell. She needs to be assessed tonight

PennyPebbles · 29/02/2016 22:49

This has been an incredibly painful thread and all for no point as the OP won't listen.

For your friends physical and mental health you need to step up and get her help. Now. Not a cup of tea and some sleep. Proper help. MH services are generally crap and slow, but generally if someone presents after a suicide attempt there will be some crisis help.

I hope you can do the right (if not popular) thing by your friend. I won't be sticking around to find out.

almondpoisson · 29/02/2016 22:50

She doesn't need to consent if she lacks capacity to make the decision due to, for instance, her drug ingestion causing an altered mental status, or in an emergency or if she lost consciousness. She can also be admitted without consent under the Mental Health Act and clearly fulfils the criteria for a MHA admission. It's probably better for her to go voluntarily than be admitted under a section but if she is currently that ill, she won't be thinking about that. Her only objective will be to stay away from hospital. I just think this is far too much of a burden for OP to bear hoping for the best. It sounds like she's in a terribly low place as it is. This was a real attempt. I am really leaving the thread, sorry, but it is not correct that you have to consent when actively suicidal. There are subtle differences between deciding, with capacity, to refuse treatment, and refusing to consent to treatment while an illness causes a disturbance that is a risk to that person's life. The best case scenario would be that she would voluntarily accept assessment and treatment for the medical sequelae of her OD and then voluntarily engage with an appropriate level of psychiatric support - often in the community, but some help and support - until she's out of the woods. This is an emergency situation, however, and OP should not have to hover over her bed counting her respiratory rate, checking her pulse etc until she wakes up in the morning. It's completely inadequate and unsustainable for OP and as for how adequate it is for her friend, if the suicidal intent and illness are removed from the picture - it's appalling. She needs treatment - even just medical monitoring - it's not a 'ooh I'll go if I feel like it' it's a very very serious game to be dabbling with. If not today, when will OP walk in on her friend dead or dying? sounds like it could happen any time. This is very serious.

Last point - being sleepy/drowsy is a really, really, bad sign here - she has taken a medication that will cause this and this may be fatal as she'll just stop breathing or she'll stop breathing when she's asleep, if she's not already possibly aspirated on vomit, and if she doesn't die she could end up with 24/7 care needs and a serious brain injury from lack of oxygen. Irrespective of the liver ( and let's not forget liver damage may be fatal, and is a very nasty way to go)

Good luck OP I'm off Flowers

almondpoisson · 29/02/2016 23:01

last last point - to reiterate, tramadol is an opioid medication. This is like heroin, or morphine, and so forth. OP's friend has a history of taking Valium (& whatever else, & has she had any tonight?)
OP's friend is drowsy - this is a symptom of her overdose (from which she was earlier found unconscious and which was a real attempt to die) opioids cause CNS depression - you lose the very basic urge to breathe and this causes catastrophic harm in only minutes. It's reversible with Naloxone (administered properly). Temporarily, if MH issues are separated for the moment as first thing must be to stabilise her, this remains a medical emergency. First things first - do what needs to be done to make sure she survives long enough to refuse further help, if that's what it comes to. She needs medical attention and OP saying she's tired and drowsy & the condition in which OP first found her, is making me very very worried indeed.

almondpoisson · 29/02/2016 23:05

Also look up serotonin syndrome. She needs treatment.

Flowers for OP

almondpoisson · 29/02/2016 23:08

& actually, lastly, remember that the drugs may be extended release or potentiated by other medications in her system. If extended release it is not at all uncommon for people to seem okay after OD and then crash later.

gamerchick · 29/02/2016 23:09

She can also be admitted without consent under the Mental Health Act and clearly fulfils the criteria for a MHA admission. It's probably better for her to go voluntarily than be admitted under a section

Really? after 15 tramadol you think all that would happen? Is that in a parallel world then?