To not understand how couples who work can afford a second child??

[TheAngelofNitshillRoad]

Without waiting until the first child is in school, anyway!!

DD is 13 months. I work part time (3 days per week) - we pay approx £600 per month on nursery fees.

I worked full time before I went on mat leave. Only got statutory maternity pay after the first six weeks. I took 9 months off and by the end of it we were completely skint. We're building back up now but it's hard because the nursery fees are high and obviously I've had a significant salary reduction. We've stripped back our outgoings as much as we can, so we cover our outgoings and have a little bit of disposable income each month, but it's hard to save.

We had always considered starting to try for another baby towards the end of this year. I didn't want too big an age gap between DD1 and DC2 and I'll be honest, I'm really beginning to feel that broody feeling. But I just can't see how we can do this.

It seems to me that while I'm on mat leave, we will need to pay the nursery to keep DD1's nursery place open (although I don't think I would put her in for three full days each week, I wouldn't want her to feel pushed out at home with new baby). If I go back down to statutory maternity pay, we physically will not have the cash available to pay these nursery fees. So we have no option but to out DC2 off for....ages really! I've been trying to save where I can, transfer the odd twenty quid to my ISA but it's a slow, slow process.

Am I missing something?? Are we approaching this the wrong way?? How do people afford this??

I didn't say it was off not to know that same people are able to continue claiming childcare vouchers.hmm I said it was odd to state that you "don't understand" why some people can afford a second child. Whether or not you know about childcare vouchers, it is obvious that some people earn more than others, some people don't need to use childcare etc.

But this distinction you attempt to draw fails marynary, because you apparently find the whole premise of the thread bizarre. Even though it was started to ask what people do to afford it, and OPs subsequent posts made it clear she was interested in things other people do that she might not have known about or thought of. Claiming vouchers during ML being one of these things. OP specifically asked whether she was missing something. She was. It's not odd in the slightest to ask whether others are doing something you've not picked up on.

It should be very telling to you that the only person so far who appears to think the premise of this thread in any way strange is you. Others have offered advice, tips and made the point that actually, it's about a lot more than how much money you have. There's a reason you're on a frolic of your own here. It's because you're the odd one. Perhaps you might manage to contain your incomprehension, though, while others continue to offer useful advice and experience?

Sweet Jesus Zilly calm down!

I think it's a weird thread too. I've two little ones and work full time. I don't qualify for tax breaks. Vouchers, they hardly change the world so they.

But it's a fixed period of time. I'm on mat leave now, and am thinkin a nanny is the way to go.

It's not unheard of to have two (or more) children pre-school and to work!

I haven't read the whole thread but am expecting a new baby in a few weeks and have one who will be 2 and a half . I only get smp and am the main earner with my dh part time and unable to increase hours so money is a concern. Both me and dh get childcare vouchers but have been saving up my husbands to cover mat leave and I have paid childcare alone during the period from when we decided to ttc as well as saving whatever we can. I don't get vouchers during mat leave but we have enough banked to drop my d's to 2 days a week and use vouchers for this while I am on mat leave. We are also taking a six month mortgage holiday. I am taking shorter maternity leave this time. Also by 3 my d's should get some free hours. Money is going to be very tight when we have 2 at nursery but we are going to cut everything we can ie no holidays no sky etc. May be cheaper having two at a childminder than nursery?

I have a two year old and a newborn. Ds1 dropped down to two mornings of nursery which are covered by childcare vouchers and he does pre school three mornings which I pay for. When I go back to work we will get a sibling discount and my wages more than cover it so we are ok.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza definitely about the average income for families with 2 children. Also don't forget you get tax credits if you are lower income. We earn more than the average for 2+2 families and we still find it hard. It's very expensive to have children, and I definitely agree many have fewer so they don't have to scrimp.

We were able to have a 25 month gap because we both earned very very good salaries and I got an exceptional generous maternity package of six months full pay, plus three months half pay, plus three months smp. It meant we could keep ds1 with his childminder throughout my maternity with ds2 and I had a whole year to devote to each of them. Our jobs also meant that between us we could also afford the £1,300 a month childcare for the two together when I returned after ds2 on a four day week. Without those jobs we wouldn't have contemplated it.

maggie don't feel sorry for children that don't have siblings close in age, it really isn't a problem. In fact it's not the ones closest in age that are always the ones to have seemingly the best relationship.

Much less jealousy as they aren't competing quite as much. You also get to enjoy each phase several times rather than it fly by. my only sibling is indeed four years younger than me and it's always worked well. You could equally say I feel sorry for those who don't have a same sex sibling. There are advantages and disadvantages to most things.

And I needed a few years to recover from learning to drive instruction before I do the next!

JizzyStradlin You are going on an on about a very minor comment. You really need to get a grip. I think it is weird to not understand how anyone can afford to have a second child or anything else as it should be obvious to anyone that is depends on salary and childcare costs. Childcare vouchers during maternity aren't going to make much difference.

Could you downsize op for a few years?

We went with a 4 year age gap so dc1 will be in school before dc2 starts nursery. The first 3 years with dc1 were the worst in terms of fees. Even though the 15 free hours that dc1 got at 3 only covers 1 1/2 days, it does make a difference.

They're supposed to be increasing the amount of free hours for working parents soon, so that should help too.

Obviously, it's going to e different for everyone, depending on circumstances.

I am the main earner and went back to work full-time after 6 months both times.
We are lucky enough to get one day per week of free childcare from my parents, and we had a bigger gap, waiting until a significant loan was paid off and dc1 was dus to start pre-school by the time dc2 came along.

We only have 2 dcs and can't afford more.

OP - I don't either, which is why I only have one dc (among other reasons). Two lots of nursery fees - ouch!

And despite childcare being more complicated once kids go to school, it is a lot cheaper.

Bear in mind too that a pregnancy does not mean one baby! We had our first, then our next two were twins. No extra help to speak of, you just get on with it. It may seem unrealistic but it does happen xx

We've decided to stick with 1! Sorry that's not very helpful, but sometimes you just can't have more.

I have made the same number of posts discussing your characterisation of this thread as you have marynary, so if I need a grip that means you do too. Except you need a clue as well.

We've already established that you, very much in the minority, think it's weird, but that appears to be because you have comprehension issues. You say vouchers won't make much difference, did you just not read the posts from people who found that, in fact, they made/will make all the difference?! The same goes for you havalina, since I presume you were referring to me even though you spelled my name wrong. Seriously, just because vouchers weren't significant to you, doesn't mean they weren't/won't be game changing to other people. You literally just have to read the thread to realise this. Hardly a big ask.

I am still getting childcare vouchers on mat leave. When I go back to work my first will get his 15 hours a week free (he goes 3x a week) so my overall childcare bill will be slightly higher then it is now but manageable.

But then I would still work even if childcare was 100% of my salary because I could never in a million years be a SAHM (not being judgy, it's just not for me!) and fortunately we are finally at the stage where we can live fairly comfortably on my DH's income these days. (We have spent 15 years needing every single penny of two full time salaries though!)

JizzyStradlin I haven't stated that it is a weird thread. I stated that it was odd to "not understand" how people can afford a second child. It obviously depends on income and outgoing which will vary from person to person. You don't know that I am in the minority to think that at all.
Vouchers will only make a difference of about £900 in total if your employer will pay them thoughout maternity leave which is probably not often the case. That really is insignificant compared with the total cost of a second child.
Regardless, as I said, it was a minor comment and I really don't see why you are apparently getting so worked up about it.

I've got a 2.8 year gap. Ds is 7.5 months and I would have gone back to work about now paying for nursery for 2 children for 4 days a week. Would have been tough, so DH has accepted a 1 year posting abroad with rent paid and we are all going out for the year. It's the only way we can afford our life with 2 little children right now! When we get back dd will be a few months off school and my dm is retiring and will look after ds 2 days per week so all being will we will have one child in childcare 2 days per week and one just wraparound care.

I've got a 2.8 year gap. Ds is 7.5 months and I would have gone back to work about now paying for nursery for 2 children for 4 days a week. Would have been tough, so DH has accepted a 1 year posting abroad with rent paid and we are all going out for the year. It's the only way we can afford our life with 2 little children right now! When we get back dd will be a few months off school and my dm is retiring and will look after ds 2 days per week so all being will we will have one child in childcare 2 days per week and one just wraparound care.

Mary they have to pay your childcare vouchers or the tax you would have saved on them. They are a non-financial benefit and cannot be taken from smp.

I really didn't want a big gap as I think if you go more than three years age gap, they don't really play together in the same way

Rubbish. My kids have a 7 year gap and play together now at 4 and 11. They are very close.

I do feel sorry for a generation of kids who will grow up without siblings close in age due to parents who wait a while before conceiving the next baby due to financial worries

Don't feel sorry for my kids. My dd loved that she was an only for a while, but is so glad we had ds and ds adores his older sister. They are great together and have a fantastic bond.

And in fact my brother and his wife had their kids close together (2 years) the older one hates the younger one and they don't get on at all.

I think the reality is most parents make fairly enormous compromises, unless they have a very obliging, reliable, generous relative able and willing to offer free full time childcare (and that itself probably comes with its cons in terms of being massively emotionally indebted to somebody who does that for you, as well as having to accept that person's rules and idiosyncrasies and potentially stronger relationship with the DC than the parents have).

One parent goes part time or takes a career break to be the main childcarer and potentially then still goes part time once they return, or the parents work opposite shifts and see a lot less of each other, maybe one parent changes career to allow them to work nights or evenings after the kids are in bed or after the other parent gets home, or a way is found to cut costs to the bone while childcare for two children is required and one parent's whole wage goes on childcare with the hope or knowledge that this will be worth it long term in terms of career progression meaning greater earning power and more disposable income a few years down the line when childcare bills are lower, or the parents choose a big age gap whether that would have been their ideal or not to spread childcare costs over time (and then deals with it in one of the other ways if they then have multiples) or the family moves to a cheaper area if that will help, or quite likely a combination of those and other options.

Almost nobody gets to have it all in terms of exactly the career and family and location and home etc we want...

I don't think age gaps make a difference with kids getting on. My siblings age range from 11-3 years older than me, I get on with all of them fine. I also know of those with a close age who do. I think it's more personality but that's another subject!

I'm having a small gap (19 months) as DD is an awful sleeper and I don't want to get my sleep and life back and go through it again.

We are lucky that we both earn decent salaries so whilst it will mean we tighten the belt we are better off if I go back to work after dc2. They will start school straight after each other too which means the costs will go down over a year. That said I would go back even if it just paid for my childcare and petrol. I enjoy work and I don't want to be too long out of the game personally.

I'd like to add I'll be going back part time any commute is over two hours a day so it gets a bit much!