To not understand how couples who work can afford a second child??

[TheAngelofNitshillRoad]

Without waiting until the first child is in school, anyway!!

DD is 13 months. I work part time (3 days per week) - we pay approx £600 per month on nursery fees.

I worked full time before I went on mat leave. Only got statutory maternity pay after the first six weeks. I took 9 months off and by the end of it we were completely skint. We're building back up now but it's hard because the nursery fees are high and obviously I've had a significant salary reduction. We've stripped back our outgoings as much as we can, so we cover our outgoings and have a little bit of disposable income each month, but it's hard to save.

We had always considered starting to try for another baby towards the end of this year. I didn't want too big an age gap between DD1 and DC2 and I'll be honest, I'm really beginning to feel that broody feeling. But I just can't see how we can do this.

It seems to me that while I'm on mat leave, we will need to pay the nursery to keep DD1's nursery place open (although I don't think I would put her in for three full days each week, I wouldn't want her to feel pushed out at home with new baby). If I go back down to statutory maternity pay, we physically will not have the cash available to pay these nursery fees. So we have no option but to out DC2 off for....ages really! I've been trying to save where I can, transfer the odd twenty quid to my ISA but it's a slow, slow process.

Am I missing something?? Are we approaching this the wrong way?? How do people afford this??

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeG0es]

Yes to keeping the place, I didn't dare take DS out of nursery as it had a very ling waiting list and no guarantees he would have got his place back. He went 2 days a week throughout my ML but shorter days than when working (still had to pay thd whole day though).

[Believeitornot]

I would take the oldest out of nursery while on mat leave and look for alternative childcare when you go back to work. A childminder for instance.

[Katenka]

We had a seven year age gap to be able to afford it. We also managed to set up our shifts so one was at home most of the time.

[icklekid]

Yep I'm pregnant with dc2 and dc1 will be 2.3 years. We won't be able to afford for dc1 to be in childcare over my maternity leave but will continue to collect childcare vouchers on mine and dh salary. Then when both start childcare will have a block built up to help afford it and ds will be 3 at that point so will get 15th free. I also only work part time but know that is a luxury because we can afford it. I would love for dc1 to continue to go to childminders when I'm on mat leave but that is a luxury we can't afford!

[icklekid]

Oh also consider how long mat leave you can afford this time it might be 6 months would be more manageable than 9?

[tobysmum77]

You don't need to wait until dc1 is at school. The ideal is to have dc2 12 months before. That way you can pull dc1 out of private nursery/ leave them there with free hours during mat leave. By the time mat leave is over dc1 will be at school, so you only have one set of nursery fees. I think you aren't factoring in free hours which do make a difference and also CCVs. But what will happen with CCVs in the future who knows as the system is changing, also you may want to save them for when you go back to work if money is tight.

[MoonriseKingdom]

The problem with the 30 free hours is that many providers are saying they can not afford to run with 30 hours paid at the government rates. It is not clear what the consequences of this will be. I am not sure if providers will be able to say you can only have 15 hours free and you would need to go elsewhere for other hours. Or if they will just have to offload the cost by massively increasing fees for younger children and hours over 30. I personally think that given the government have made it clear that women on benefits should be job seeking from their child turning 1 then it would have been more helpful to offer 15 free hours to younger children of working parents.

[SerenityReynolds]

We have an almost 3 year gap (2yrs 10 months). DD1 was at nursery 2 days and my parents did the third day when I was at work. We have kept DD1 at nursery for those 2 days as we both get childcare vouchers which pretty much covers it, I get some (relative!) rest and one to one time with DD2 and it keeps DD1's routine. However, you could pull yours out or at least reduce hours to save up your vouchers? Even dropping 1 day would make a massive difference. By the time I go back to work, DD1 will be almost 4, so we'll only have about 9 months of them both in childcare before she goes to school. Expecting to be very poor indeed for that time, do doing our best to be frugal now!

For us it's about the longer term benefits. I would have to jump through hoops to re-register with my professional body if I took a career break. I would never get a job at my current grade without doing a Masters and part time jobs are even harder to come by. We figured best to stick it out for now as it should pay off when they are both at school - or at least give me more options e.g. private or bank work as opposed to NHS.

[chocolatecheesecake]

Re childcare vouchers. It is legal to get them on top of smp, it's in HMRC guidance. You also continue to get them once SMP finishes but you're in the 12 months after you've had your baby. However, whether or not you get them depends on how your employee has constructed their childcare voucher scheme. So worth having a look at the HMRC guidance and checking the terms of your childcare voucher scheme against that. I did this and initially my employer was still refusing to pay them but once I sent them a copy of the HMRC guidance and spoke to my Union, they changed their mind.

If you can get them paid, maybe cut your hours at nursery down whilst on mat leave, eg 1-2 days a week (your dc1 will enjoy being able to do lots of fun stuff that you will find difficult to do with a newborn, and you'll get some time to do housework etc so that when you're with dc1 you can focus more on fun things). At the same time you cut the hours you can reserve a place for both dc at nursery for the hours you will need when you return to work. That way you can save some of your nursery vouchers for your return to work and use the rest for your maternity leave period.

The other thing you can do is to use the annual leave you'll accumulate whilst on maternity leave before you return to work which again helps reduce the overall cost of your mat leave. Depending on your spacing of dc, you'll have a period when you have double nursery fees before the 15 hours kicks in for your eldest. It's horrible but won't be for that long as this starts the term after they are 3. This plus childcare vouchers means you pay very little for the eldest child from that point if you are 3 days. Also you should get the 30 hours that's going to start in 2017 which should also help?

[Chipsahoy]

I timed it so Ds1 was starting school as I had to go back after maternity leave. No way could I afford 2x childcare fees.

[mimishimmi]

We had a six year gap..

[Pumpkinnose]

You may find if you reduce down to say one nursery day during maternity leave that you had priority to increase up to 3 days when you return to work. In my bit of over scribed south London it's also much easier to get nursery places as the children are older due to ratios/increased competition as children leave to go to pre schools.

[ArgyMargy]

Keeping DC1 at nursery while I was on mat leave was great as I had proper time with DC2 when tiny. Having two at nursery was hard as we spent most of my salary on it but well worth it in the long run. My career didn't suffer and the DC are close. Four years seems like a long gap but I know lots of people do this.

[WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeG0es]

I did have priority for increasing days when I went back second time, as it had taken 18 months to get a place for a Weds first time round I didn't dare take him out I wasn't going to let that go again (only full daycare nursery in town). Children didn't leave for preschool as it was not full daycare, most stayed till they went to school proper.

[JizzyStradlin]

30 month gap, not been any problem at all tbh. We have some cheap childcare from family, but could still afford it fine even without, and this is on salaries that we consider decent but aren't massively above national average. Reasons being:

• not in south east, so housing costs much cheaper. We're fortunate enough to have relatively high incomes compared to local average, although the flipside to this is living in an area that would bring much of MN out in hives.
  

• Also meant no shortage of childcare locally, so in our area even if you'd had DC1 in nursery pre ML for DC2, there'd be no worry about paying to keep the place open. Fees quite cheap compared to south east. The paid childcare we have used hasn't been much of our income.
  

• DC1 getting free hours by the time I went back. Nursery allows it to be taken as 5 days of 3 hours, 3 days of 5 hours or 2 days of 7.5 hours- convenient for working parents.
  

• Always done a mixture of part time and flexible working between DH and I, meaning we have both each done at least 1 day a week at home each since I went back off ML with DC1. Actually we could both earn a bit more than two lots of nursery fees and certainly more than one, so on paper we'd be better off financially both working full time. But that wouldn't have worked for the family and we might well have ended up spunking loads of money on takeaways etc.
  

• Childcare vouchers help with the few pounds a week we spend topping up DC1s hours to be there for lunch.

[Frazzled2207]

If you can (and the childcare vouchers thing is definitely true which helps), keeping dc1 in nursery even if only 1-2 days per week, helps enormously when on second mat leave. But if you dont want to do it you can save the vouchers for when you go back to work.
To be honest though, it's only really feasible for me to return to work after 2nd mat leave because we're extremely lucky and have gps helping out two days a week. Also dc1 is entitled to 15 free hours soon after I go back to work.

[HeadDreamer]

I didn't want too big an age gap between DD1 and DC2

My two are 3 1/2 years apart. I don't think it's that big really. I was on maternity leave the year before DD1 starts school. That way, you don't have to worry about keeping the nursery place when you go back to work. She's also entitled to free preschool. We kept her in the same nursery for 3 days week, however. But with 2 x childcare vouchers, and also the free pre-school entitlement, we don't actually pay for those 3 days in cash. If you like, you could also withdraw your DC1 from the nursery and find a preschool suitable for those with SAHP/nannies.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

I left teaching to become a childminder when DC1 was a baby - was wonderful, got pregnant with DC2 thinking we'd manage, but of course both my own kids would have counted in my mindee numbers so it was going to be tricky... We moved abroad towards the end of my pregnancy - it's financially much easier (and less sneered at/ more socially acceptable and even respected) to live on one salary and be a SAHM in Western Germany (even though we moved to the most expensive part of Germany) than the UK :o Not necessary a practical option for everyone... There is no free childcare at all though, and school starts at age 6 (and finishes before lunch...) :o

[HeadDreamer]

it's financially much easier (and less sneered at/ more socially acceptable and even respected) to live on one salary

@Schwabischeweihnachtskanne, sneering really? There are plenty of ladies who lunch around where I live. I don't know if they are really SAHM. A neighbour has her preschool DC in nursery 4 full days a week while SAH! I think it's a lifestyle choice for a lot of mums with DH who earns well.

[HeadDreamer]

We have nannies who drop off at DD2's nursery too. It's another world totally!

[Marynary]

It seems a bit of an odd question. Surely you understand that some people earn more than you and can afford to pay childcare for two. Even if childcare completely uses up all the wages it is often worth continuing to work so that you keep the job/career. Other's get help from family and don't pay much for childcare.

[Schwabischeweihnachtskanne]

Headdreamer no they aren't SAHM in my book either - if you stay at home but your child is in nursery you are just not working IMO... not sure what the "job title" is, but I'd imagine it takes massive self confidence to brazen it out.

People always asked me when I was going to go back to work, and informed me that I would be glad no get my identity back and "not just be a mum", ironically I was also told I would enjoy having grown up conversations, hot cups of tea and going to the toilet on my own, none of which were true as I was a teacher :o even when I was officially on maternity leave or still pregnant My own mother was the worst for it, but tons of people are very condescending indeed about stay at home mums - they are boring, they are unambitious, they are setting Faminism back 60 years, they are old fashioned, they are Little Women, they are wasting their education, they are being irresponsible because when (implied rather than if) their husbands leave them they will not have a career and a wage, they are dependant, they have nothing to talk about except nappies... Heard all that... Perhaps it is regional/ more specifically localised and based on some kind of algorithm of wealth and class and education and ratio of cats bum mouthed people to laid back people :o

(disclaimer for people selectively spot reading only some posts - the above are not my views, I was a sahm and heard those views)

[Marynary]

Other's others

[GnomeDePlume]

A long time ago now but the thing which got us through was that I went back to work full time after each DC having had short maternity leaves. Six weeks after the first, 3 months after the second and 4 weeks after the third. Full time childcare was not that much more expensive than part time childcare (pre vouchers so that may have skewed things)

When DC3 came along we realised that full time childcare was going to cost significantly more than DH earned so DH stopped (or started!) work and became a SAHP.

[JizzyStradlin]

It seems odd to frame OPs question as an odd one marynary. Makes perfect sense to me that OP would be asking how people manage it, in case there's something she missed that would be significant. And indeed, that's exactly what's happened. OP didn't know it was possible to continue getting childcare vouchers on ML, various people have explained that's how they were able to carry on working, and OP thinks the availability of vouchers may allow her to stay in work also. This was an information seeking thread, and appears to have been a successful one.