To not understand how couples who work can afford a second child??

[TheAngelofNitshillRoad]

Without waiting until the first child is in school, anyway!!

DD is 13 months. I work part time (3 days per week) - we pay approx £600 per month on nursery fees.

I worked full time before I went on mat leave. Only got statutory maternity pay after the first six weeks. I took 9 months off and by the end of it we were completely skint. We're building back up now but it's hard because the nursery fees are high and obviously I've had a significant salary reduction. We've stripped back our outgoings as much as we can, so we cover our outgoings and have a little bit of disposable income each month, but it's hard to save.

We had always considered starting to try for another baby towards the end of this year. I didn't want too big an age gap between DD1 and DC2 and I'll be honest, I'm really beginning to feel that broody feeling. But I just can't see how we can do this.

It seems to me that while I'm on mat leave, we will need to pay the nursery to keep DD1's nursery place open (although I don't think I would put her in for three full days each week, I wouldn't want her to feel pushed out at home with new baby). If I go back down to statutory maternity pay, we physically will not have the cash available to pay these nursery fees. So we have no option but to out DC2 off for....ages really! I've been trying to save where I can, transfer the odd twenty quid to my ISA but it's a slow, slow process.

Am I missing something?? Are we approaching this the wrong way?? How do people afford this??

[tobysmum77]

And to add to Jizzy's points the op is also planning ahead making sure the fault can cope financially. Which is on the responsible side as far as I can see. She's quite clearly talking about other people like herself in averageish pay rather than city bankers.

[HeadDreamer]

Schwabischeweihnachtskanne I think definitely it's in how you see 'not working'. Especially your mum's attitude might have a lot to do with it. IMHO, as long as you can afford it, there's no reason you need to go out to work. You should be able to choose to work if that is what you like. You should equally be able to choose to pursue your hobbies if that's what you prefer too.

As for SAHP being boring etc. Well most people don't work in very exciting jobs! I'm lucky that I really love my work, and I love working FT. But I can understand too that a lot of work isn't fulfilling. Also the pressure can be very hard. For example, teaching should, on paper, being very rewarding. But in reality, I know so many teachers who struggle with the pressure, and would love to quit.

[MoonDuke]

How we afforded a 2.7 year gap:

1. high salaries (would have had a slightly smaller gap but I wanted to guarantee a promotion first)
   
   
2. only 6 months mat leave each time before going back to work FT
   
   
3. having a nanny at home - a real luxury for 1 DC (though he had medical needs which meant we couldn't put him in a creche), and bloody fantastic for 2 DC

[Beth2511]

We will make it work somehow because i dont want a big gap, seem to be struggling to conceive number two though as things stand its a 2 year gap minimum but i really dont want 4+

[Headofthehive55]

Could you juggle your hours at all? I juggled mine so I worked more nights and half nights, on the half nights of course I didn't need childcare but was still earning. I kept my grade, kept learning, but was financially better off than working full time and children in childcare.

Also just look at after school provision where you are. I've found the hardest years childcare wise are junior school level, too young to leave, too old for some types of care and provision patchy for school hols.

Larger age gaps aren't bad you know, I have four all with four year plus gaps. Works actually wonderfully. Financial pressures are spread, not just now, but when they are learning to drive, go to uni etc. You get that lovely first time mum experience all over again, baby group you aren't chasing a toddler and can concentrate on one at a time.

[umizoomi]

Lilac childcare vouchers ARE payable by your employer whilst you are on maternity leave at the rate at which you are enrolled previously, so, if you sacrifice the full £243 that's what you'll continue to receive as well as SMP.

You cannot salary sacrifice from SMP (there would be no point anyway as if that's all you get you're not taxed, so no saving yo be made) as it is a minimum allowable payment. If your employer paid you half salary or whatever that was MORE than SMP then you would have to sacrifice.

www.gov.uk/guidance/statutory-maternity-pay-employee-circumstances-that-affect-payment

[Quodlibet]

We scrape by through a number of means. We are both self employed and luckily our jobs are very flexible (although our income is unreliable and fluctuates). Up until now we've had 2 days paid childcare with a childminder, which is about 75% covered by our tax credits, and juggled the rest.
We have low overheads, few luxuries and cut our cloth according to our income.

Number 2 is due when DD is going to be 2.7, and won't go into paid childcare until after DD's 15hrs kick in. Because of the ways their birthdays will fall, we'll have 2 lots of childcare to pay for just over a year before DD starts school.

Because so much about our jobs/income is unknown there's almost no point trying to calculate how we will manage - we just have to jump in and keep juggling!

[hellsbells99]

Back to work part-time when DD1 was 3 months and DD2 was 4 months. DH works shifts so some flexibility and he was able to do some of the childcare. Only used FIL for help if needed for illness. Some costs do go down - i.e. No meals out or socialising for a while with 2 children under 2!

[maggiethemagpie]

I really didn't want a big gap as I think if you go more than three years age gap, they don't really play together in the same way. My two are 2.5 years apart and i'm so glad we did it that way as they are inseparable. The bit where they are both pre school is quite short - 2 years - so it's a matter of just getting through it. It wasn't worth it for us both to work as the nursery fees were £114 per day for the two of them, so my partner is a SAHD.

My eldest is in school now but we are waiting til the youngest one starts school before DH returns to work.

I do feel sorry for a generation of kids who will grow up without siblings close in age due to parents who wait a while before conceiving the next baby due to financial worries.

In a way having them closer together whilst costly when they are both pre school, means you get that phase over and done with sooner rather than having to go through it all again.

[Postchildrenpregranny]

There are 3years 8 months between my two Not planned that way but it worked out at a reaĺly good gap (I was 35 and 39) .Dc1 was old enough not to be jealous, was at nursery in the 6 m leading to Dc2 birth then at school from when Dc2was 8 m They each got a lot of 1:1 time.Our LA was one of the first in UK to offer free nursery places to children .I had a very flexible and well paid job ,largely working from home while DC at nursery and in the evenings , which I continued til DC2 was born
As a previous poster said don't assume it gets easier (though it may be a bit cheaper) as they get older .The first year of secondary school was a worry as mine had to be latch key kids
I'm surprised how many people have family local enough to help out .I have warned mine that while I will available for emergencies I will not be able to do day to day care .Apart from anything else I will be elderly by the time/if they produce DGs Plus they live over 100 miles from us ,in opposite directions

[gillyweed]

I didn't go back to work after my second, it's not necessarily what I wanted but it's the only way we could afford to have 3 kids. My salary wouldn't have come close to covering childcare, no family willing to do it for free and I hated being away 12 hrs and rushing everything, ultimately I didn't enjoy my job that much either.

Being a sahp is really tough and isolating, but because I will have had 3 kids in 4 years I think it won't be for that long and I should enjoy it while I can, some of it I will treasure forever - it has also allowed my husband to really persue his career which will ultimately benifit us all in the long run.

I will go back to work, hopefully when the kids start school - but I plan to either retrain or do something I've always loved, I'm not willing to settle just for a job to fill time/pay bills. It's really tight and we don't have many luxuries but jn the long run its probably the best decision for all of us.

[Postchildrenpregranny]

Should have added the age gap worked better at certain ages than others ,though DD1 always very good at playing with her baby sister when they were very young They are 26 and 30 now and about to go on holiday together .- They are very close emotionally. DD 1 very protective of her baby sister who has a hugely stressful job ..In turn DD2 very supportive of her big sister who can struggle with life sometimes

[Guitargirl]

If we had had to pay 600 a month in childcare then we would have struggled with one let alone two.

Both DP and I work full time but flexible hours.

When I returned to work after DC1 we had 3 mornings a week of a childminder (4 hours a day).

2 years later going back to work after DC2 it was cheaper and easier to pay a nanny for those 3 mornings a week instead. Plus DC1 was attending a morning playgroup by that time.

By the time DC2 came to start playgroup at age 2.5 we had juggled things so that playgroup fees was the only paid childcare we needed as DC1 had started Reception. It has been a juggle with our jobs/hours but it has saved us thousands over the years which we have been able to spend on holidays instead.

[Eva50]

22 month age gap between ds1 and ds2. I returned to work when each of them were 14 weeks and worked full time over three nights so that we didn't need childcare. I was younger then! I have an almost 9 year gap between ds2 and ds3, took 8 months off (maternity leave had changed) and used a childminder when I returned to work on day shift.

[Marynary]

It seems odd to frame OPs question as an odd one marynary. Makes perfect sense to me that OP would be asking how people manage it, in case there's something she missed that would be significant.

It is odd to "not understand" how people can afford to do something you can't do. People obviously don't all earn the same salary!

[JizzyStradlin]

You think it's odd not to have known that some people are able to continue claiming childcare vouchers whilst on ML? Odd definition of odd you're working with there marynary.

[caker]

I'm pregnant with DC2 and it will be a 3 year age gap. I think high childcare costs are a form of social engineering - we planned DC2 for when DD would get her free 15hrs nursery. We're keeping her in nursery while I'm on mat leave so she can have her routine and get ready for school. There will only be 4 months of having both DC in nursery at the same time.

[Marynary]

You think it's odd not to have known that some people are able to continue claiming childcare vouchers whilst on ML? Odd definition of odd you're working with there

I didn't say it was off not to know that same people are able to continue claiming childcare vouchers. I said it was odd to state that you "don't understand" why some people can afford a second child. Whether or not you know about childcare vouchers, it is obvious that some people earn more than others, some people don't need to use childcare etc.

[Marynary]

off odd

[hotchocmarshmallow]

You may not need to keep DD in nursery to "save a place". If you give them enough notice (ie at the start of your mat leave) that you want her to resume her place 9 months later along with her sibling, that should be enough time to reserve her spot.

[HoldMeCloserTonyDanza]

It's worth pointing out that the average incomes for households with two adults and two children are quite a bit higher than the average income in general (obviously).

www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/25/uk-incomes-how-salary-compare

Almost half of all families with two children earn over £50,000pa. So unless your household earns that much, you will likely struggle more than many others do.

A lot of people have children later, or have fewer children, because it's miserable to scrimp and save and keep children near the poverty line.

[HeadDreamer]

hotchocmarshmallow sadly they don't work like that. In DD's nursery, what they do is whenever they have a place freed up, they look on the waiting list for the first person who can fill the place at that time. They do not hold a place at all, which makes business sense. So if you go back to work in a month where not a lot of children leaving, then you might well end up without a place. However, if you go back on Sep, then if your name is sufficiently high up on the wait list, then you can pretty much guarantee to get a place. DDs went to a very popular nursery in the area. A lot of children left their old one when spaces become available for this nursery. This includes DD1 who was born in spring, so had to wait until sept when there were spaces. DD2 was a september born, so it was very easy to get a space.

[tiredandhungryalways]

Opposite shifts work for us. After my first child I went back to work part time and to avoid nursery fees we worked opposite shifts allowing valuable time with dad this way too. Depends on type of work etc but good luck!

[RichardHead]

My employer is continuing to fund my childcare vouchers, but treat it like a loan that I have to pay back on my return. I'm assuming they're allowed to do this, it's a big multinational so big HR and Law Dept's.

[kate1516]

Watch out re expecting to continue to get your child care vouchers paid whilst on my maternity leave. My company (big uk company, household brand but am not going to name it) do not pay them as they have received legal advice saying they don't need to if they market the scheme as discretionary when you sign up. God knows if they are right or wrong but don't have the energy to challenge them on it. My previous employer did pay it so there are companies making different interpretations of the law out there.