to be depressed that only 9% of women identify as feminists?

[parklyfe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

''When split out by gender, women were more likely to identify as feminist, with nine per cent using the label compared to four per cent of men.''

There is quite a cross-thread thing here, but no Lweji - not identifying as a feminist doesn't auto make you a supporter of male privilege.

MY choice

Is it though? Women don't make choices in a vacuum. So one could equally say that men would have that choice too but why don't they choose it? Is it because of there's a societal norm and expectation that women should look after children and their partner, rather than men?

Is it though? Women don't make choices in a vacuum. So one could equally say that men would have that choice too but why don't they choose it? Is it because of there's a societal norm and expectation that women should look after children and their partner, rather than men?

See, its stuff like this that puts stuff on feminism. Telling people that they only believe what they believe because they are 'unenlightened' and conditioned by the patriarchy. If the poster is happy doing all of those things and happy in her choices, then that should be the end of it.

I am waaaay more.'feminist' these days than before, largely thanks to reading Mumsnet. My eyes have been opened to things that never occurred to me.before. But would declare that I 'identify as a feminist'? I'm not sure.......

That should say 'puts people off feminism'.

"See, its stuff like this that puts stuff on feminism. Telling people that they only believe what they believe because they are 'unenlightened' and conditioned by the patriarchy. If the poster is happy doing all of those things and happy in her choices, then that should be the end of it."

Nobody "told" anyone anything,It was all "Could it be?" "Might it be?

Are you absolutely sure that every decision you make is entirely unconnected with the society you live in, the family you came from and they expectations that the media place on you? Are all your decisions made in a complete vacuum? Because mine certainly aren't. And looking at why we make decisions can be very enlightening,

I think it is about how you perceive the environment you live in.
A year ago, If I'd been asked, wouldn't have defined myself as a feminist. Now I do.
My world hasn't changed in that time, but due to life experiences I've had, I now perceive things differently.

...saying you're not a feminist automatically identifies you as supporting male privilege.

Feminism is very unattractive, since it seems to mean lots of unjustified & tedious condemning other people or worrying about stuff not important to me (which is why I'm among the condemned & not wanted in your club anyway)

If I don't believe in God I'm atheist. If I believe in God, I'm not atheist. (Simplistic terms)

ooh, that's an interesting comparison. As someone else said... "Who wants to be defined by what they Don't believe in?" What next, a-creationists? A-flat-earthers? Hence why some people tend to reject the word atheist. Simple is not always suitable.

I dunno if Humanist boards have the type of debates that feminist activists do on MN, angst about who does or doesn't identify, a need to recruit people. I am not keen to join any evangelical movement, anyway.

It's in the definitions.

Neither involves registering and actually carrying a card. People are defined by their beliefs, not what they decide to call themselves.

The definition includes 'if you don't call yourself a feminist you are automatically supporting make privilege? Really?

I'm in the "I don't care if you're a feminist or not" camp just because you don't recognise the importance of it and what its meant to society it's not my problem, I don't have to understand your position though.

As for women making choices that feminists don't accept.... so what? So a couple of women say they don't like your choices? I'm sure people who don't identify as feminists will disagree with your choices too. I make choices that may not be approved by all.

The point of feminism is to highlight the limits of choice we make based upon the patriarchal nature of our society.

So I am a SAHM, of sorts, I have been the primary carer to our four dcs. This "choice" is one I am delighted about, I feel like I would really be missing out on seeing the kids grow up if I didn't. (Very personal) However my husband didn't have such a choice, and neither really did I. I am lucky enough that my DH earns enough for this choice. I am also aware that as he was out earning me by some distance, it wasn't really a free choice. Even if he was desperate to stay home and I wanted to work we couldn't have done it. So I appreciate that whilst I made the choice to stay home it was a limitless choice or a genuinely free choice.

When feminists discuss certain choices it's about structures within which those choices come about not vilifying women that make those choices.

wasn't.

"A place where people can discuss things, without fear of being looked down on for using the wrong terms."

Please do use Bertrand's thread. Or post in FWR on the pub. Or start a thread in FWR called "newbie here" or whatever (which is what i would do in, say, camping)

Newbies have posted in all of those kinds of ways before and I think have had a positive experience.

"SamanthaBrique that argument can be very frustrating and alienating to people who have made that choice. It seems to imply that if only you knew better you'd make your partner SAH."

I can't speak for Samantha, but if I had said that I would be meaning that it should be possible to make proper free choices,but because of the way society is organised, it isn't. And that is one of the reasons I'm a feminist. Because most women and men don't have the choices they should- even when legislation says they should.

Thanks Bert, that is what I meant. I wasn't criticising the PP, just pointing out that choices aren't always what they appear to be.

With regards to the "hostility" on the FWR boards, I think there needs to be some context. These boards appear to be, by far, the ones that are trolled the most, usually by men who claim to have a few questions about feminism and then turn into MRAs (see Burke the Berk some months ago). So I think the regulars there are naturally wary of new posts. Additionally, a lot of new posters on there come on with a very fixed idea of what feminism is, and stick to their guns regardless. Recently there was a post about boys vs girls toys and no matter how much evidence was given about there being no such thing as a male or female brain, and that kids are all different from each other regardless of sex, the OP refused to budge from her position. Which she is entitled to, I guess, but that's probably why the regulars get disillusioned.

I've tried to go into that section a couple of times but I obviously wasn't knowledgeable enough about feminism and was ignored

However, I still call myself a feminist as I believe in equality of the sexes and women's choice (and yes, that includes being a housewife or SAHM if that's their choice). It's not for other people to decide I'm "not feminist enough".

Sorry if you didn't get any responses, biscuit. I would be surprised if it was because you weren't knowledgeable.

I had a quick look so I could respond belatedly but couldn't see any of your posts.

Sometimes threads can be quite quiet, again, the pub is quite a good general space if you wanted to try again.

Thanks DrSeuss.

I've namechanged since posting on the feminism boards.

I will have to try the pub!

I believe in equality, I don't think women need special treatment / privilege

We have the equalities act - so how is that working out for you as a woman hmm

Not bad thanks I'm not sure I get your point

Hallelujah

What I meant is that we have equality legally but it hasn't totally transferred culturally, I feel feminism is the mechanism to make that happen. It sometimes seem like feminism gets jumped on but people aren't offering any other route.

Feminism isn't a route as such, is it?

There can be many routes withing feminism, as far as I understand it.

BTW, and it's more related to this thread than the actual one where I posted the following comment.

I think it matters a lot how the questions are phrased.
If people were asked if they identified with
a) feminism
b) sexism
c) (is there an alternative?)

how many would identify as feminist?

It's interesting that the report mentions:
"more than two thirds of Britons support gender equality – but just seven per cent would call themselves feminists."

It does look like feminism has been given a bad name, more than anything.
It doesn't help that it's a name that put the emphasis on "feminine".

Perhaps it's time to give feminism a gender neutral name too.

Let's call it... Evelyn!

What exactly is a feminist? Many people don't like pigeon holing themselves and so when asked wouldn't say either way or would just say no. Its a silly statistic most people are all for equal rights, pay and conditions but wouldn't go about campaigning for it.

I've reached an age where people saying "I don't want to be labelled" makes me grin.

It's like my teenage son, who's a hipster because he doesn't want to be like everyone else. Oh, apart from the tiny matter of clothes, hairstyles, music, books...........