to thibk there's a lot of mansplaining going on at the moment?

[StealthPolarBear]

On mn I mean. Just something I seem to be spotting more and more.
happy to be told I'm wrong in words of one syllable

Who said they don't like white males?

Yes but would it be cis-woman-splaining or cis-man-splaining?

You have to be more specific Twat

What if a trans gender male to female does it? What do we call it then

Well, Worra, then we have a huge debate about how that wouldn't happen, because gender is a 'social construct', therefore the person doing it is 'biologically female' and can't possibly be 'mansplaining'. Gender is only a factor in using terms when the 'patriachy' is involved, apparently.

What is mansplaining?

Initially, I thought it was a term used to describe boorish men who felt the need to "correct" what a woman has said, often in a patronising manner, even on topics that the man has little expertise or knowledge in while often ignoring any academic/professional/direct experience the women in question may have on the subject concerned.

The last few years though I have seen this phrase morph into a handy accusation for some women to throw at a man to shut down a debate just because the women finds his verifiable facts or well reasoned views contrary to her thinking or worldview.

That's a whole big can of worms right there Worra. Not sure I've got the stomach for it because it's only a matter of time before someone actually takes the concept seriously on here!

I have worked on projects covering a lot of different subject areas. I have noticed that men who hear what I'm currently working on tend to say "You should make sure you cover X" whereas women more often say something that implies some kind of capability on my part - like "Oh how interesting, what are you going to cover?" And then maybe suggest something afterwards, if I haven't already mentioned it.

I find it really depressing that people both to spend time and money researching this sort of issue - and publish it, and get it reported in the media, and write books on it - and still the response is that they're making 'stupid generalisations'.

Is it also a 'stupid generalisation' when a doctor tells you that smoking causes cancer, or that drinking too much alcohol causes cirrhosis?

Sure, smoking doesn't always cause cancer. So that doctor must be a right idiot!

Ok. Adding a 'not all men' disclaimer. There we go.
In my experience this is a gendered thing as men tend to do it more than women. NAM. although as a poster further down said, it's only the 'obvoous' men thay catch my attention. There are presumably plenty of men without 'male' names who do not do this on mn.

Dur it's cos women are saying it Jeanne! Like when there's a "debate" about street harassment, because how can we be sure a) it happens b) it makes women feel annoyed/intimidated, when we only have "their" word for it.

The evidence of dozens or even thousands of women is worth nothing until someone with the testicles of objectivity experiences it, don't you know. And since they can't - it being an explicitly gendered phenomenon - it's basically not happening.

I'm a female academic and I have had male first year students explain my field to me. I find laughter works. And yes, it is an entirely male phenomenon in my experience.

Stealth, natch not all men mansplain. Like not all men are Secretaries General of the UN. But all the Secretaries General of the UN have been men. :)

Try working in IT. It happens all the time

Of course women can be patronising and explain things in an irritating or uninformed way. But I do think the specific dynamic where a wholly/mainly uninformed person tells a very informed person what's what is usually gendered.

The exception of course (probably for everyone) is from parents or other older relatives, who still explain things occasionally as if you were 5 and couldn't do up your own laces, but that's forgiveable IMO as to them it probably only seems yesterday you WERE 5.

It's my experience too, stealth, but it does seem to be part of a wider pattern. I don't know if the links are useful, but here they are - mostly about how people listen better to men/rate what they say more highly, because I think that explains the reasons behind it better than anything else.

I was very grateful to the much older dad at my daughters school who patiently explained to me for no fewer than 15 minutes, just what a 'crumpet' is, how to toast them and how good they taste with butter. Where I could buy these wonderful 'crumpets' and when they should be eaten, maybe as a mid morning snack, possibly as a spot of supper if peckish late in the evening. I went numb from the neck up. That is only one example of his great wisdom, the things I learned from him.

So if someone wants to stereotype in a sexist way, all they have to add is 'IME' and a disclaimer that says 'not all men' or 'not all women' and that makes it OK?

IME...

Women are more bitchy than men.
Little girls are more emotional than boys.
Boys are tougher than girls.
Men are better drivers than women.

How does it make those ^^ statements less of a pile of sexist crap?

www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/12/09/gender_bias_in_student_evaluations_professors_of_online_courses_who_present.html

and a slightly different take on the same issue www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/01/11/new-analysis-offers-more-evidence-against-student-evaluations-teaching

This one examines the idea that women talk more, so it shows that it may be men don't realise they're talking too much when they explain: www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/02/22/do_women_talk_more_the_answer_is_no_but_the_belief_persists_despite_the.html

This is about peer evaluations by students: jezebel.com/male-undergrads-automatically-overestimate-their-male-p-1759401016

This gathers and discusses some papers on mansplaining itself, although Deborah Cameron (linguist) has taken issue with some comments of this type relating to the ways women are supposedly socialised to speak differently. www.alternet.org/gender/7-studies-prove-mansplaining-exists

Sorry, I have no idea why I couldn't post that all in one go!

Maybe MN has an internalised mansplainer in its system.

Jeanne, I'm sure what you said was very interesting but could you maybe get your dh to come on and tell me?

Ah, yes, asking, the testicles of objectivity. Unlike the womb of hysterical (seewhorrIdidthere) generalisation.

Worra I agree.

I divorced him, stealth. My partner will give it a go, but I'm afraid she's terribly hampered by the ladybrain.

See the thing is, Jeanne, there are male brains and female brains. You should probably just read this.

:o