To find this poster in a train station wrong?

[megadude]

Hi Mumsnetters,

I'd be interested to read your opinions about this poster. I don't want to say right now what I think about it, as I'd like to know how you'd interpret it.

TIA,
Megadude

We're up in my home town for a festival. Our (19 YO; i.e. adult) au pair walked into town and home again last night alone, as there was no chance of getting a taxi. It's about a 15-20 minute walk, and she left town to come home at about 11:30pm.

We're only here for two nights, and we're out tonight, so for her - it was either head into town last night, or stay at home and miss out on an evening of fun.

For her, it was a no-brainer.

Of course, had she been attacked, we all know exactly how it would've played out. 'What the hell was she doing, out at that time of night, alone?' The correct place for her to be was at home, inside a locked house, away from life danger.

Still no thoughts or ideas from anyone who sees nothing wrong with this poster, about what does contribute to the rape culture that we exist in, if not things like this poster...

I have perspective. That's what leads me to conclude that people who think that women should expect rape as a consequence of walking home alone are not civilised. Or maybe not as civilised as me.

Accepting unquestioningly that it is the responsibility of women to protect themselves from rape, but not the responsibility of men to protect themselves from assault seems pretty bloody uncivilised to me, frankly.

Well quite, Dowager. What on earth was she doing on her own at that time of night? She should have got a taxi. Why didn't she walk with a pal?

Would love to know what Itsmine and Blonde think - I'm sure they're judging her and us...

I would love to know if Itsmine is a woman or not but I'm sure there's totally irrelevant...

Let's be adults.

Some people have a desire to cause humiliation, pain and sometimes death to other people because of who they are, because they feel like it.

It's sad, but there is no alternative for us civilised lot but to accept the behaviour of the barbarians and stay behind the gate.

But if we really wanted, we could try to tackle the people who do these nasty things. Because surely, no one wants this to happen. We all want to live in a world where the strong don't prey upon the weak, don't we?

So I propose zero-tolerance. Let's start with campaigns. It's a bit old skool but maybe posters in public places would be a start. Like posters showing that all people are entitled to be in public, alone and unmolested.

And posters saying that if you hurt those people, you are not only a degenerate but you will be prosecuted and a jury of your peers will find you guilty.

And maybe that might make you think twice before doing it.

I have a dream, as someone once said.

I got a bit carried away there.

I'm not a totalitarian or a Panglossian.

If anyone would like to say why my dream wouldn't work and explain exactly why, I'd be thrilled to hear from them.

"He was right,dead right as he sailed along, but he is just as dead as if he'd been wrong."
That surely applies to this situation. It is better to be not raped, even though it is always 100% not the woman's fault.

Dowager I think rape culture exists because women's interests are always put second to that of men. You see it in religion, which tends to deny women autonomy over even our own bodies but we are constantly told we must respect other's religious beliefs. Why the fuck should I respect anything that would deny me abortion or tell me I am 'less' than a man? Not singling out any one religion btw, there are different degrees but they are all misogynistic imo. Church leaders hold powerful positions that have historically been denied to women (House of Lords for ex).
Rape culture exists because judges are out of touch with modern thinking and seemingly beyond getting sacked for shitty decisions ( not read the details but there is a case at the moment where a rapist has had his sentence reduced because he apparently wasn't that violent. Wtf is that about?) Sentences need to be severe.
I said up thread that the likes of footballers are considered so valuable to their clubs that often these clubs will overlook appalling treatment of women and protect the player. Footballers are idolised in this country. What message is that sending out?
Even in the transgender debate, women are sidelined to accommodate the wishes of men.
All the time women are told we are not as important as everybody else. And now European govts are importing en masse, men who believe this and who have no respect for the laws of the countries they are in. None of this will reduce rape culture.

Been thinking about this a lot in the last few days. I can see why some people think this poster is harmful, and there is certainly room for posters to also be aimed at men warning them of dangers. However, on the whole it still just says to me that the world contains men who will take advantage if they can, so minimise their opportunity.

I still think I live in a world where men are fundamentally decent and I don't want my sons growing up believing that women see them as potential rapists. Maybe Ive just been lucky in life and have only ever come across nice men.

I was just curious so thanks for answering me.

One way to be "cracking on with that asap" is to join me in emailing Greater Anglian. We may not be in charge of poster campaigns, but we do have voices, especially in numbers.

NNalreadyinuse
You make some very valid points there and I agree with everything you say.

The rape sentencing seems to be upside-down, with excuses found to reduce a sentence. To my mind there should be a basic minimum sentence, with years added on for aggravated issues - length of attack, additional physical harm, age of victim etc.

You are also right about the importation of disrespect for women, from countries that have a far worse record even than hours.

"However, on the whole it still just says to me that the world contains men who will take advantage if they can, so minimise their opportunity."

That's how some of us here see it too. But you'll probably be accused of victim blaming, being a man (!), etc.

I'm happy to email the company megadude

That's good, the more people that do, the more weight to the argument. On this thread I think it's been quite an even split on whether people think this poster is victim blaming or not, so in everyday life, it's probably the majority who don't see the problem with this poster. I wrote my email with this in mind.

I'll do it this afternoon.

I'm amazed we got to 30 pages and no deletions. Aren't we all very polite 😃

Thanks TooOldForGlitter . I've drafted mine, just need to get it proof read and links added then I'll send it on Monday.

It has been very polite on here, yay Mumsnet!

To my mind there should be a basic minimum sentence, with years added on for aggravated issues - length of attack, additional physical harm, age of victim etc.

Funny you should say that, but the CPS have of that one.

That was the easy part. Now it's time for the rest of society to catch up about what rape is and who makes a worthy victim...

Sorry thought of that one

"now it's time for the rest of society to catch up about what rape is and who makes a worthy victim"

A million times this and given that we have posters suggesting that women should take responsibility for their own sexual assaults I can only assume society in general doesn't have much of a clue.

try that again

If it doesn't work you can easily find sentencing rules for rape and other sexual offences on the Crown Prosecution Service page.

The minimum sentence for a single act of rape by one offender of a person aged 16 or over is 5 years in prison. It can go up to life, though that is very rare.

So lawyers understand how serious rape is and load sentences according to aggravating factors.

Wider society doesn't, which is why we see posters such as this giving advice about keeping yourself safe from rape which isn't practical at all times and may lead people into a false sense of security and others to wonder why they were so silly.

It's why people such as me and many others, get angry with them and call them victim-blaming.

It would be safer if the train company in question didn't cancel trains late at night or throw female passengers off the train when a load of people high on ket decide togang up on them instead of calling the police.

Yes great idea, I'm presuming you'll be cracking on with that asap, in the meantime I'll carry on my risk assessing and you of course are free to do yours.

I made a suggestion for that. It's not my fault you didn't bother quoting it.

So why did the recently convicted rapist have his sentence reduced because his offence was allegedly not so bad?