At the pool - other adult behavior

[CousCousDefinitely]

I was at our local leisure centre today. It's a private hotel one, if it makes a difference, so it's users would be a combination of members, hotel guests and you can also pay for a day pass. I'm a member.
It was busy as it is normally on a Saturday afternoon. There were two guys I hadn't seen before in the lanes section (where you can do serious swimming, up one side and down the other). I wanted to do 50 or so lengths but it was tricky as it was me and them in the section and they were doing handstands, diving in (under the no diving sign) and generally getting in the way. I get this with children sometimes but not usually adults in their 30s or 40s.
Im laid back so I just sort of went around them as best I could. They were swimming under me and making me nervous. So after about 20 lengths I gave up.
I went into the steamroom and they arrived in about 10 minutes after and stared at me up and down in a pervy uncomfortable way.
So they it clicked that the pool annoyance was probably on purpose.
I left and was pissed off that it made me felt so uncomfortable.
I was pissed off that I couldn't do anything to stop them staring, that they'd intrrupted my swim and that I couldnt complain to the lifeguard while I was there as it would have been awkward, or as I was leaving as I didn't want to appear racist. The two guys were speaking Arabic to each other which is pretty uncommon in my town.
My dh went to the pool after I got home, for his turn at a bit of child free peace and I described them to him. He came back and said they were in the hot tub (this was 2 hours after me) so they'd probably got a day pass and stayed to piss off more people.
Was I unreasonable to just leave and say nothing and if so, what should I have done or said? Either to them or to the lifeguard. I feel like such a chicken.

This thread has made me wonder if the reason the Colonge attacks went unnoticed for a while and played down was because a similar attitude existed where the victims tried to describe the identifiers, as Arabic speakers or by appearance or whatever and the police questioned them on how they knew it was Arabic or how they could identify a race/nationality. Were they nit picked into submission?

I think you should call up to complain now.

They were entitled wankers disobeying the rules and making you feel uncomfortable. It doesn't make it better if they're entitled wankers from a misogynistic religious family background abroad or our own homegrown entitled wankers from atheistic family background.

I agree. Thanks. I'm not going back to complain about this. But if it happens again I will.

nonamenopackdrill

'I think the very fact that the OP is happy for this thread to have become an Islamophobic rant by many speaks volumns about the real nature of her problem.'

Can I suggest you report each and every post that contains any hint of an Islamophobic rant as they will, by definition, be so very in breach of talk guidelines that they WILL be deleted?

Except I doubt I or anyone would see many deletions as the extremism here seems to be that contained within your post above

It's also bloody offensive to suggest that a woman who has been subjected to unwanted and unasked for sexual leering is not, in fact, a problem (which is precisely what you imply via the 'real nature' of 'her problem).

Please, genuinely, report each and every one of those posts that your sweeping assertion covers and here, in the interim please have a

[cross]

I cannot believe the offensive attitudes opening discussed here. People are suggesting that 'going to pools and looking at women' is a 'thing' that recently arrived asylum seekers do. wtf?

Tens of thousands of people come to Europe each year because they are fleeing for their lives. The vast majority are - just like you and I - normal people who want to get on with their life.

There are some wankers - as there are some wankers in ANY GROUP. There are men who are pervs, there are men who are refugees who are pervs.

this makes me want to weep. So horrendously offensive.

Why were you afraid to complain at the time for fear of being racist? They were intimidating you. Please do complain.

Lady have a look at any of the posts by AnthonyBlanche if you find the assertion so hard to believe.

Ive to explain, although maybe not very well. Plenty of reasons. Not sure if you've rend all my posts Teal, but I will try to explain in brief.
I'm not a complainer generally.
It's not really a race issue (that was not the main reason for the thread although it does appear to have become one now)
The men's behaviour in generally was a collection of minor annoyances. I'm wasnt sure if leering was something to complain about. (although from advice here, I can now see that it is something to mention if it makes me uncomfortable which it did)
The diving was the only thing that was officially rule breaking and I wasn't really strong and assertive enough to complain.
If it was a child, I probably would have said it directly them. With adults it different as there's the fear of backlash. I'd expect adults to know how to behave in a pool setting and if they didn't then assume they were not used to the social expectations of the environment. I mentioned their race as I had heard about pool behavior of asylum seekers in Germany and wondered if I was experiencing something similar here, as they also spoke Arabic and didn't know how to behave (that's where the similarities end).
I didn't raise it also, as I didn't know how the broach it as adults not knowing how to behave. Nothing serious occurred, it as just a collections of small annoyances and I didn't want the life guard to think I was picking on them as they stood out as being culturally different.
I do now realise the seriousness of the behavior and how off putting it was. It was enough to make me leave which is enough to complain about. I will definitely complain the next time.

Yes I can understand that. I suppose you wete caught v off guard.
It was v wrong though and I'm glad you realise that now. You're instincts were correct esp if they were leering at you that is awful and unacceptable.

waterrat

I cannot believe the offensive attitudes opening discussed here. People are suggesting that 'going to pools and looking at women' is a 'thing' that recently arrived asylum seekers do. wtf?

Waterrat Can I suggest you RTFT? The poster that wrote that has made it perfectly clear she was taking the piss/being ironic.

AnthonyBlanche

i doubt you will find many ethnically white British people who think it is acceptable for women to be groped

Tell that to the abuser who rubbed the flat of his palm across my arse on the tube. No nationality holds the monopoly on abuse.

If they made you feel uncomfortable and were breaking rules you should have reported them regardless of race, sex, colour, religion etc.

WAIT hold up here a second. page 7, OP casually drops that they aren't in the UK.

where do you live, OP?

Cork, not that different to the UK but we'd be less cosmopolitan I guess.

Lady

To quote Anthony

*What is imported ghosty is the institutionalised cultural acceptance that women are second class citizens with about as much worth as a lame donkey.

I'm not for a,minute suggesting that Europe (or specifically the UK) is some sort of feminist utopia but i doubt you will find many ethnically white British people who think it is acceptable for women to be groped (cologne and other cities) or for gangs of men to prey on vulnerable girls (Rochdale etc) or even to require women to obey the male head of their family. I certainly know no one who holds those beliefs.*

This is referring to Islam and is incorrect. The youtube interview with Reza explains why if you go back up thread.

It is behaviour like this that demonstrates that the cultures of Western Europe and North Africa / Arab countries do not mix. Attempts to "integrate" migrants from these areas have not been successful and adding millions to their numbers will do nothing to change that - in fact are likely to mean even less integration.

This is downright racist imo. I won't report the post as I think important that shit like this is left to stand and be argued against.

I suggest that the only reason Anthony agrees with the OP is because it pushes their agenda.

By the way you will see that I do support the OP in complaining, and I do absolutely believe her.

In what way zzzzzz?

Yes that's the main difference I was referring to too. Probably explains my lack of exposure to diversity and my ignorance in appropriate descriptives.

This is referring to Islam and is incorrect. The youtube interview with Reza explains why if you go back up thread

Reza doesn't actually explain anything. He is an apologist who obfuscates and tells outright lies, including about his own academic credentials.

Nobody needs Reza or anybody else to verify whether Islam institutionalises women as lesser. Anybody can pick up the Quran and other associated texts to verify that it is so themselves. Women are described as deficient in intelligence and commanded to be obedient and available to men. See here quran.com/4/34 and here sunnah.com/bukhari/6/9 for two such examples.

Due to this doctrinally proscribed misogony it's no surprise to see the results showing the dire experiences of women wrt to equality and harassment in various surveys in Islamic countries:

-ALL muslim majority countries languish at the bottom of the Gender Equality globe rankings reports.weforum.org/global-gender-gap-report-2014/rankings/

-Pakistan: 96 percent female respondents during this study revealed that they have been victim of street harassment in one way or another

-80 % of Arab women admitted they have been subjected to some form of harassment www.masress.com/en/almasryalyoumen/5883

-Egypt: More than 99 % of women and girls have experienced some form of sexual harassment Increasingly commonplace sexual violence has combined with plummeting female representation in parliament and a growth in more extreme Islamic views to push the country to the bottom of the region for women’s rights

Numerous other surveys exist for the individual other Islamic countries citing similar to above. Reza of course won't address these rather inconvenient figures and facts.

What's the percentage of British women who have experienced street harassment then? I'd say from my own and my friends experience it could be pretty high too?

You're right it is pretty high (although still less than half of the rate in Islamic countries):

A YouGov poll shows 43% of young women in London have experienced public sexual harassment yougov.co.uk/news/2012/05/25/sexual-harassment-capital/

Also important however is to examine the type & frequency of harassment.

5% of the women polled in London experienced sexual touching compared to 96.5% of the Egyptian women surveyed. egyptianstreets.com/2015/03/05/the-moral-epidemic-of-egypt-99-of-women-are-sexually-harassed/

Travel to any Islamic country and there really is no comparison. Groping, touching, staring and crude propositions are on a whole other level and is constant and daily. Many posters on other threads have attested to this and it's not just Western or uncovered women being harassed, but veiled one's too.