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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think "neighbour" has assaulted my child

719 replies

BubbleBathAddict · 06/02/2016 08:17

Basically my 11 year old son was in a group of school friends yesterday after school. On the way home from the park they played "knock down ginger" -ie they knocked on a couple of front doors quite near us and ran away. Now this is not something I was aware of or would condone, but on the scale of "crime" it's not something to get too excited about.

My son said he did not do the knocking and stayed on the pavement.
At the second house the woman came out and yelled. The boys ran. All of them more quickly than my son it seems. Half way home (a few houses only) he felt someone grab his wrist and the said woman insisted he tell her where he live and frog-marched him home. He was in tears. I was at work, but his dad and older brother were in.

I do not know the woman at all. She apparently said her children were scared. I am pretty furious that she thought it was OK to grab and intimidate a child. That might have been appropriate 40 years ago, but these days touching anyone without consent is battery isn't it?

I don't want to over-react, but will be going over there today. What would you do?

OP posts:
IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 06/02/2016 15:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sleeponeday · 06/02/2016 15:46

Yes, the defence of reasonable chastisement doesn't work, but the defence of reasonable action to prevent crime, and of lawful arrest, probably does.

No it doesn't. They only apply if you can prevent the crime (it had already been committed, if you are seriously arguing that a bunch of primary aged kids playing a stupid game is criminal) and the lawful arrest argument only applies for a crime sufficiently serious that it is an indictable offence - as in, one so serious that it cannot be handled by a magistrate, but must go to Crown Court and be dealt with by a judge, and decided by a jury of the perpetrator's peers.

I cannot believe that people are on the one hand dismissing the law pertaining to appropriate forms of discipline when dealing with children, in favour of the law pertaining to the treatment of adults engaged in serious crime. And all because people are arguing the OP has the adult in the scenario's actions out of proportion, no less!

Lweji · 06/02/2016 15:48

Quite frankly, I'd be giving my son a telling off, as well as the other kids when I saw them, and would certainly go there with my son for him to apologise to her.

sleeponeday · 06/02/2016 15:49

Of course it's "non criminal" behaviour, sleep. Don't be an arse. Terrorising people in their own homes isn't exactly exemplary behaviour either; from an 11 year old who should know fecking better.

I have said numerous times that I understood what the woman did, and wouldn't have a problem with it. That is not the same as inventing its being lawful, just because I happen to understand her choosing to do it. I'm sure you possess sufficient intelligence to understand the distinction.

As to whether it's unlawful for an 11 year old to knock at someone's door and run away... well, it's certainly anti-social behaviour, yes.

TaraCarter · 06/02/2016 15:49

You are confusing the crime of assault and/or battery with thedefencesomeone can use against that crime, which is to discipline a child. The DEFENCE being cited - that of reasonable chastisement - is utterly irrelevant, because the woman in question is not entitled to that defence at all. So you come back to: did she scare the person, and did she lay her hands on the person. The answer is yes.

It ain't being cited in her defence, innit? I was responding to other people about frog-marching their own children, and added a (poorly-constructed) rider to explain I was making no claims about the OP's entitlement to use it.

You're more than welcome to clarify the point further to the thread at large with reference to case and statute, though. [generous]

Lweji · 06/02/2016 15:50

And thank the woman for letting me know about him misbehaving.

sleeponeday · 06/02/2016 15:56

Tara - that comment was a reply to *Tomatolizzy's post, and not yours.

TaraCarter · 06/02/2016 15:57

Okay, point clarified.

sleeponeday · 06/02/2016 16:02

It's fine; I appreciate that it can be tricky in a fast moving thread to recognise whether someone is quoting you, or someone else. Smile

TaraCarter · 06/02/2016 16:06

It is getting very fast on here!

SideOrderofChip · 06/02/2016 16:19

I cured our local estate kids of playing knock and run at mine.

They also had a habit of kicking their football in my back garden and expecting me to go and get it sometimes an hour or so after playing knock and run!!

So we moved our lounge so the sofa was by the window and i could see the the path at all times, locked the gates to our garden and then completely ignored the door unless we were expecting anyone or it was the postman coming down the path

After a month of completely ignoring them and their footballs in the garden eventually one of them collared my DH at he was coming in from work.

Who sent me out to speak to them.

As i told them. "Why the hell would i answer the door to you to give you your footballs back, when you so enjoy knocking on my door and running away. I'm not here for your entertainment. So no. I will not be answering the door anymore whether its you playing knock and run or whether its because your football is in the garden. So forget it"

I've had no problems since.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 06/02/2016 16:19

Have you knocked and run away too OP? If so, the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree...

Original poster
BubbleBathAddict · 06/02/2016 16:20

So obviously I've been over and given the b*ch a good old slap. She ain't picking on my special precious baby, or whatever the expression is.

(He's not that precious, I've got some spares.)

Even re-reading my original post several hours later, I am not quite sure how this got so out of hand. I was always intending to go over with the son to take him to apologise, and without over-reacting was going to suggest it might not be a good idea to grab strange children as their parents might not be so understanding. I genuinely wondered if anyone more knowledgeable about the law than me might clarify whether legally she had in fact committed the crime by accosting him, grabbing and yes, intimidating him. She was an adult, he is a child. I don't imagine she would have needed much force, as he went like a lamb. (Having not been educated in lying about his address or despite brothers, not being much good at getting away when restrained). At no point was I going to waste the Police's time. And yes, he's doing a lot of extra chores today, and has even done his piano practice without being reminded.

Next time I'll just ask for slow-cooker tips.

OP posts:
tomatodizzy · 06/02/2016 16:20

Another good way of looking at this - if someone unknown to you grabbed your wrist, screamed at you that they wanted to know where you lived, and frogmarched you there clutching your wrist, do you think that is legal and totally non-criminal behaviour? Even if you'd tried to sell them something on the doorstep?

If I'd been selling something on the doorstep or doing nothing wrong then yes I would be frightened and think it was wrong/illegal BUT if I done something wrong minutes earlier I would 100% know what it was about and I'd be worried about what the consequences would be, I would not think that people have no rights to pull me up on my wrong doings because I am above the law. I certainly wouldn't for one minute think the person I had angered was in the wrong.

IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 06/02/2016 16:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

asilverraindrop · 06/02/2016 16:25

This got out of hand because, other than saying you wouldn't condone his behaviour, all your original post is focussed on the wrongs done to your child rather than the wrongs done by your child. I am sure that if you had said at the outset that you were going to get him to apologise and were imposing sanctions at home, the responses posted would have been quite different.

kawliga · 06/02/2016 16:26

It's funny how people who played this stupid game when they were children believe that EVERYONE played it. Despite so many posters here saying they never did.

Those parents who let their kids do it now, also believe that ALL KIDS play it. That's why OP thinks her ds was just unlucky to be caught. You always see on these threads a parent saying 'so my kid was mucking about setting bus stops on fire like all 7 year olds do, nothing unusual' or 'so my dd was shoplifting like we all did when we were teenagers it was a normal rite of passage'

OurBlanche · 06/02/2016 16:26

So...

I don't want to over-react, but will be going over there today. was always meant to be I was always intending to go over with the son to take him to apologise

OK. Sounds reasonable to me Smile

Lweji · 06/02/2016 16:27

I was always intending to go over with the son to take him to apologise
Sure you were...

Have you been yet?

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 06/02/2016 16:28

Your opening post (aggressive, angry) and your last post (consiliatory, slightly more open minded) are two verrrry different things.

I think you've been very surprised by the strength of feeling from 99% of posters, and maybe understand your neighbours pov a little more. Let's hope so.

IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 06/02/2016 16:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArmchairTraveller · 06/02/2016 16:29

'Knock Down Ginger is sort of a right of passage, isn't it? I think we all did it at least once, at least those of us who lived the sort of existence where we went out to play unaccompanied in a reasonably built up area.'

Yes, I played it with my mates when I was a littlun running wild in the streets in the 60s. But we also knew that if you got caught, you'd be marched home by a pissed-off neighbour, often by the arm or an ear. Or civen a clout round the head.
That's what made it a thrilling game and added the risk.
Not like the pathetic imitation the OP describes, where if you get caught then you wail for mummy and the victim daren't say anything, let alone touch you.
Where's the challenge in that?

IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 06/02/2016 16:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pipbin · 06/02/2016 16:31

Even re-reading my original post several hours later, I am not quite sure how this got so out of hand.

It got out of hand the moment you accused someone who caught you son misbehaving on private property of assault.

kali110 · 06/02/2016 16:32

Please everyone does not do it.
My friends never did it as kids, neither did i, we knew what trouble we would be in!
My dad always told me it was a horrible game and can scare people ( i know what he meant now).
By us it was knock knock run, i've never heard of it called the other one.

fairy that story is horrible, don't know how you got through that x