World Hijab Day

[Marzipanface]

AIBU to feel uncomfortable with this day and also really irritated at the lack of discussion over this event from a feminist perspective. There seems to be a wholesale silence from the Feminist blogs and papers I subscribe to, and I can't find any discussion on here. No-one wants to talk to about it.

Just that really.

the full covering was also used to cover captured women, to hide the younger women who were virgins so they would not be stolen. and be sold at a higher price this was pre islam

and this happened last year in 2015 to yazidi women

I wonder if Hijab will become less and less popular with future generations in the UK?

I can think of quite a few teenage girls who wear it, not because they're actually forced to, but because they know their mums, aunts and grandmothers would be bitterly disappointed in them if they didn't. So really you could say for those girls, there's a fair bit of emotional blackmail going on.

But if that's how they feel today, I wonder if they'll make sure their own kids don't feel like that in the future?

Those who support veiling and think the premise of world hijab day is more than a cynical marketing ploy, please answer this question:

Would you request your husband/father/brother/son to wear a hijab for World Hijab Day?

Serious question.

Please could someone explain the difference between a niqab and a burka for me? Is a burka the covering that covers the whole of the face? Sorry, I'm not very knowledgeable about this subject.

The burka covers the body and the niqab covers the face.

I wonder if Hijab will become less and less popular with future generations in the UK?

Well that ties into a wider context of why 2nd/3rd generations are becoming more conservative in their religious beliefs, it's slightly taboo and can't solely be contributed to just the 'wars with the west' either.

Ohfor - Here's a useful guide.

www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241

Thanks for the link rainbunny . Surely the burka must be incredibly uncomfortable and hot to wear? Doesn't it impair visibility for the wearer too? I've always felt that what I wear is an expression of my personality or mood that day, but the burka surely removes that individuality?

I think that's rather the point.

Yeah, it is unbelievable that slavery is alive and well in this day and age. I never knew growing up that it was still going on in parts of the world and had been going on all along. Just that it had been used a few thousands years ago and then, of course in America and the West Indies. And most importantly then abolished. This was the only slavery I had ever heard of.

Who would have envisaged the horror of the existence and resurgence in passing it off as a religious mandate. We're not evolving at all. Scratch the surface and a very base creature is exposed. The supposedly cleverest ape who can also be the most malignant.

I simply can't ever agree with the wearing of a niqab or burka. Covering your face isolates the wearer from those around her. It creates a distance and an inability for others to really connect with the wearer. We have facial expressions for a reason, if I cannot tell if you are smiling or angry or happy or sad how can get a true sense of who you are? Human connection and trust is lost when your face is covered from the world. How can a woman with a covered face exert power and influence, speak up for herself, address a crowd or engage in a debate, participate in sports? In our society we have open interaction and the law (imperfectly) treats women as equal to men I actually think it is disrespectful to deliberately choose to hide your face from others, on a certain level it is a rejection of belonging to our society.

I hate the niqab. Not the ladies that wear it, but the symbol.
For modesty, I much prefer some Jewish orthodox men's solution: they actually wear "modesty glasses"! :D
They may look like right plonkers, but at least they acknowledge that they are the one with the impure thoughts, and that they are the ones that need to deal with it. That's not to say I ignore the deeply sexist view of orthodox Jewish people, just that if you are going to be a sexist pig, you have to be the one to bear the burden.

French. I just had to google modesty glasses!

"People telling me I am oppressed, when I don’t feel I am, is condescending and rather lacking in credibility. I fully support the right for woman to choose to dress how they like."

It seems a bit unimaginative to ignore the fact that many Muslim women around the World have no choice over this (see Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and so on). Some British women might have a choice but everyone knows that others have less freedom to choose. Increasingly women who wear dress in normal Western clothing get frustrated about being seen as fair game just cos they are not Muslim and cover themselves up. It's doubly frustrating as this is not our culture. I also feel sorry for the men because it all seems so tense and artificial and inconvenient when men and women are not able to interact with each other normally and naturally. Men and women should be free to love, to be friends, to listen to music, to dance, to enjoy art culture, nature, without all this repression. Some middle eastern music is simply beautiful but the more conservative religious branches don't like music, fun, and frolics. Saying that I have seen plenty of young women in London wearing the hijab who look much more galled up with heavy make up, high heels and tight fitting clothes. Compared to them I look pretty plain in my boot cuts, mum boots and parka with no make up on.

Saying all this, British contemporary culture is also full of f* ups. Too much consumerism, drink, too much drugs, too much focus on fitting a narrow ideal of beauty, sex for commercial purposes, that's the ad industry, porn, Hollywood, sex trafficking. We live in strange times.

A colleague and I were having a long discussion at work today about the trend for young women to remove their pubic hair (bear with me, this is relevant - I think).
When I was a teenager many years ago, it was unheard of for girls to remove their pubic hair and it would have been seen as extremely odd. Now, most likely due to the proliferation of porn, it has become the norm for girls and young women to shave/wax their pubic hair off. All those women will say that that is their choice - which it is. But it means that shaving/waxing has become the default position and young women now have to decide to go against the trend and not to remove their pubic hair. Now imagine that you're an average insecure self conscious 13 year old girl. You are told that 'everyone' removes their pubic hair and that boys find pubic hair on girls disgusting. You still have a choice but my point is that none of us make choices in a vacuum. We are influenced by our upbringing, our culture and wider societal influences. I really don't want to derail into a discussion into a discussion about pubic hair, I'm just trying to illustrate a point about choice.
I took the DCs swimming yesterday. There was a Muslim family - mum, dad, 3 boys and 2 girls. Dad and the boys were on the slides, jumping in the deep end etc. Mum and the girls were wearing what I can only describe as waterproof burkas. They spent their time sitting in the shallow end anxiously adjusting their costumes to make sure they weren't showing any flesh. It just made me really sad.

I see what you mean about pubic hair . It was weird, but you have a point. It is a choice that is deviously oriented by external expectations.
On the other hand, removing all the glorious fur may be painful, itch like hell or feel cold, but it does not have a real impact on your social presence, your ability to see, listen, and move. And unless you have compulsive exhibitionism, or are a pornstar, it is not something that can be judged by all and sundry, or tacitly enforced.

Miss that is not an irrelevant example at all. In a way it's peer pressure. I hope there are still enough women who merely keep it nice and neat down below rather than undergoing torturous waxing. I honestly think women should be in charge of the world. We could all live as strong empowerd Amazons in tune with our female cycles and hormones, in charge of our reproduction, living in an economic system that allows us to be economically productive, whilst our off spring is taken care communally, all this in tune with nature.

there could be a bit of goddess worshipping if people insisted

I don't know if anyone has read, 'Princess: A True Story of Life behind the Veil in Saudi Arabia' by Jean Sasson? It is the story of a Saudi princess.

She is well pissed off with Having to be veiled.
I highly recommend this book, the first of four.

There is a thread about it in non-fiction.

rainbunny what you said about facial expressions being important is very much how I feel. I actually started to write a post to say something about that, but I couldn't phrase it without thinking that I would offend. I was going to post that there are very few women, where I live, who wear any facial cover, but there is one woman who wears what I now know to be a burka. I sometimes see her in a local bank and, to be very honest, I'm a bit wary possibly afraid to speak to her. I'm anxious that, if she's covering all of her face, apart from her eyes, where should I look? Should I have eye contact with her? Would it offend her if I looked directly at her, seeing as she's covered herself up? Would I be able to see the usual expressive signals that we get from seeing the other person's face and if not, how would I know if my contact was welcome or not? I'm ashamed to say that apart from offering a brief smile, I haven't plucked up courage to do anything further and I feel quite bad about that. I have no wish to offend either the woman herself, by "doing the wrong thing ", nor anyone on here, if I've phrased this badly. I kind of feel on the back foot about this because this seems to be quite a divisive subject and is easily misinterpreted as being read as "other ", and that's not what I'm aiming to do. Apologies, not a very well written post.

Glad that some of you got what I was trying to say. I'm not in any way equating waxing public hair with wearing hijab/niquab - I was trying to make the point that when women say 'It's my choice' when referring to either practice that it's not quite that simple.

OldFrench there was a thread on here a couple of years ago by an MNer who posted about her painful Bartholins cyst. Her DH told her it was because she didnt shave

I thought it was a very good post, and you made a very pertinent point about what we mean by "choice", MissHoolie.

I must admit I couldn't help imagining you and your colleague having a long discussion about pubic fashions in an open plan office, with lots of slightly worried looking people walking past

I find the Niqab quite intimidating in that I don't feel it welcomes conversation or communication. Serving it's purpose I suppose. And, I have to admit that I instinctively feel that I have nothing in common with this person because they allow themselves to dress in this way. Totally judgemental I know.

Exactly what I was trying (rather badly ) to say Maisy. It feels as though a barrier has been put up & I'm unsure if communication is wanted.