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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

World Hijab Day

551 replies

Marzipanface · 01/02/2016 16:07

AIBU to feel uncomfortable with this day and also really irritated at the lack of discussion over this event from a feminist perspective. There seems to be a wholesale silence from the Feminist blogs and papers I subscribe to, and I can't find any discussion on here. No-one wants to talk to about it.

Just that really.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Sallyingforth · 02/02/2016 17:24

Google some more

HaveIGotAClue · 02/02/2016 17:24

Incidentally - can I ask the Muslim women here what you think about breast-feeding in general and more specifically breastfeeding in public (wonders about the logistics of breastfeeding under full dress!)

HaveIGotAClue · 02/02/2016 17:30

Thanks Lumela. It has always confused me as to how Jesus and Judaism morphed into Christianity - given that Jesus was the son of God (so apparently promoting Judaism one would assume!).
It's like, God promoted Judaism through prophets or something, then said 'fuck this shite - this ain't working - let's send you down there to reinvent the wheel => Christianity'. Then Muhammed came along as a prophet of Allah who had the same thoughts as God previously and said 'fuck this shite - this ain't working - let's send you down there to reinvent the wheel => Islam'.

It's all mad Ted!

januarybrown1998 · 02/02/2016 17:33

Fox I asked some time ago whether WHD also applies to men - will men, Muslim or non-Muslim, be invited to experience the hijab?

If not, can you tell me why not?

Also, would you personally be prepared to wear a traditional Jewish head covering for a day in order to walk in another's shoes? Or wear no hijab if you usually do in order to have a secular experience?

I'm genuinely interested and have yet to get an answer.

Thanks!

venusinscorpio · 02/02/2016 17:36

It's not for men, that's the biggest misconception people have.

Is it really not? Universally? I think, just perhaps, sometimes it is.

And no, covering up for modesty is not unacceptable

If you have a choice. And it's not "modesty" to cover your hair because you might unbearably tempt men. That's ridiculously judgemental of other women. If you want to cover up for whatever reason, that's your free choice, and you're lucky to have it, don't you think?

and seeing the way people dress in the UK and other countries I think a bit more clothing wouldn't harm anyone.

That's nice dear.

Veritat · 02/02/2016 17:40

seeing the way people dress in the UK and other countries I think a bit more clothing wouldn't harm anyone.

Currently I'm wearing loosish trousers, a shirt buttoned up to the neck, a jumper, socks and shoes. What further clothing do you want me to wear, Fox?

Sallyingforth · 02/02/2016 17:42

World Hijab Day is a day to raise awareness against all the prejudices that exist against Muslims and especially the notion that Muslim women are some bunch of poor oppressed beings that need saving.

It is patently clear that many Muslim women are indeed oppressed. There are so many examples of this that it would be tiresome to list them all.
But for a start,
How else do you explain women not being allowed to associate freely with unrelated men.
How else do you explain women being arrested or beaten because police decide they are not sufficiently covered.
How else do you explain women not being allowed to drive.

I will be glad to support Hijab Day when you in return support a non Hijab Day, so that we can each experience how the other group lives.

LumelaMme · 02/02/2016 17:42

Have, many years ago my DM had a very good Muslim friend. She would bring her DC to visit and BF the baby. As far as I remember she didn't cover her hair (not round DM, anyway), and she didn't wear lots of flowing clothes either, but she used drape a shawl up over her shoulder, tuck the baby in behind it and no one was any the wiser. DM was very impressed at the sheer efficiency!

Original poster
Marzipanface · 02/02/2016 17:52

Well that was interesting!

OP posts:
Atenco · 02/02/2016 18:13

"How else do you explain women not being allowed to associate freely with unrelated men.
How else do you explain women being arrested or beaten because police decide they are not sufficiently covered.
How else do you explain women not being allowed to drive."

What you are saying is that women are oppressed in Saudi Arabia, what's new?

Or are you inferring that these rules apply to Muslim women all over the world, because you are just displaying your total ignorance.

batshitlady · 02/02/2016 18:16

Feminists don't want to talk about it That's right....Feminists have nothing to say about this.

venusinscorpio · 02/02/2016 18:21

What you are saying is that women are oppressed in Saudi Arabia, what's new?

Aren't you bothered? Jumping in to accuse people of "Islamophobia" just because they don't think the hijab should be celebrated because of what it symbolises is a more important priority on your top ten list is it?

januarybrown1998 · 02/02/2016 18:25

Or are you inferring that these rules apply to Muslim women all over the world, because you are just displaying your total ignorance

I think enough of us have been educated, lived in and travelled extensively in Muslim and non-Muslim countries so I believe our opinions don't come from a place of total ignorance in the slightest.m

I think your comment is unnecessarily aggressive; there has been an intelligent and interesting debate here.

Would you answer my question? I could repeat it if that helps Grin

Atenco · 02/02/2016 18:59

"Would you agree with WHD being inclusive of men spending a day covered"

Men and women are supposed to modestly dressed, the Muslim men and women that I know do dress modestly, some of the women prefer to wear hijab and some don't. Does that answer your question, January?

I don't agree with the niqab, nor do any of my Muslim friends. Though there have been times in my life, here in Mexico, where I have felt the need for one.

venusinscorpio · 02/02/2016 19:05

Though there have been times in my life, here in Mexico, where I have felt the need for one.

Think about it, before you focus on women's behaviour to make excuses for the behaviour of predatory men.

HaveIGotAClue · 02/02/2016 19:08

Ok. As an extension of the covering up ethos.... Do you feel that women who do not cover up, or who dress immodestly, are fair game? For harassment? For sexual advances? For rape? Groping? Or what is it that being covered up protects you from?

HaveIGotAClue · 02/02/2016 19:09

Also - can I ask whether rape is ever committed in countries where women are covered?

venusinscorpio · 02/02/2016 19:12

I can answer your last question, but happy to leave it to Atenco. I'm sure it's more of a rhetorical point anyway!

HaveIGotAClue · 02/02/2016 19:13

Third question: Since infidelity seems to be the issue being addressed by Allah, does covering up eliminate this?

Fourth question: Why does a child have to cover up? Is it to protect against paedophiles?

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 02/02/2016 19:14

can I ask whether rape is ever committed in countries where women are covered?

If a woman lives in a country where she is covered I imagine she is also neck deep in cultural as well as religious restraints, so we will never ever know the true extent of rape etc.

Its bad enough here in the UK - one cannot begin to image the problems in ultra conservative ones.

HaveIGotAClue · 02/02/2016 19:17

Mouse - but they're covered up. Surely that should elimate all lust?

januarybrown1998 · 02/02/2016 19:47

Atenco, thank you but no it doesn't.

I'm specifically asking whether the invitation to wear a hijab for a day is aimed only at non Muslim women or if it is a universal, non gender-specific offer to everyone, including Muslim and non-Muslim men too.

The second (genuine, non-rhetorical) question was would you wear Jewish headwear for a day in solidarity?

If the answer to all of those is yes, then I am in favour.

Just a simple yes or no will do, no need for anything else.

Thanks in advance!

Atenco · 02/02/2016 20:06

can I ask whether rape is ever committed in countries where women are covered

Women cover up in the UK, so I think you know the answer to that.

Oh for heaven's sake, what a lot of excitement about a scarf, my atheist mother frequently wore one, as did Brigdit Bardot.

I am a feminist and have respect for other women's choices. If it is not their choice, I will help them to find a way of living in a world where the choices are accepted, but I do not feel so culturally superior to everyone else that I think they should not be allowed to something on the heads, whatever the reason.

venusinscorpio · 02/02/2016 20:11

but I do not feel so culturally superior to everyone else that I think they should not be allowed to something on the heads, whatever the reason.

Only one or two people said that shouldn't be allowed to i.e. it should be banned by law. The rest are criticising a highly sexist and oppressive custom and calling it for what it is, while acknowledging that for a number of reasons those women who do have a genuinely free choice might make the decision to wear one.

So what exactly is your point?

AMouseLivedinaWindMill · 02/02/2016 20:11

Oh for heaven's sake, what a lot of excitement about a scarf, my atheist mother frequently wore one, as did Brigdit Bardot

My mother wore one too to keep her head warm in winter, nothing at all to do with modesty and mens gaze Sad

I am a feminist and have respect for other women's choices

^ FOR me this is one of the big issues when it comes to choice^ and Islam.

The Big Question SHOW on sunday raised issue of aposates being killed....the iman avoided the question.

Generally its not a free thing to do to leave the faith....so how much choice to the girls have?