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Original poster

Continuation thread re IOC/trans policy and related trans issues

955 replies

fidel1ne · 27/01/2016 12:26

Also a plug for the FB group Grin

www.facebook.com/groups/ATWIWS/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
BeyondBootcampsAgain · 03/02/2016 09:53

Icebeing re "The point is that we could make both the trans community and a lot of XX women happier if we stopped saying 'pregnancy is a women's issue'....so why not do it?"

I'm gonna assume a large chunk of those xx women are either concerned that they cannot get pregnant, or hoping they do not get pregnant, or will be/were one of these (or pregnant) in the past or future. Potentially it can affect any woman. There will have to be some significant and quick evolution for it to affect men.

MaidOfStars · 03/02/2016 09:53

Female = Of the sex that can bear young or produce eggs
Just this. It doesn't have to mean anything else, it doesn't have to be a term that is fought over, it doesn't have to be rejected as some kind of judgement. It's a biological description.

Even if the words 'women' and 'female' are so appropriated that they become meaningless, we will still need a word to describe the sex that can create eggs and bear young.

CoteDAzur · 03/02/2016 09:53

"not all biological females have a pregnancy issue. so it isn't a women's issue is it?"

Not all women have a FGM issue but FGM is still a women's issue.

Not all women are beaten up at home but DV is still a women's issue.

Not all women get killed by their relatives but honour killings are still a women's issue.

Not all women get cervical cancer but cervical cancers and their detection is still a women's issue.

No doubt you see where I'm going with this.

IceBeing · 03/02/2016 09:53

Do you really think there aren't women out there who think it is ridiculous to refer to childcare as a womens issue?

I promise you there are a lot of them...and they make up more than 50% of the female population of a physics department!

CoteDAzur · 03/02/2016 09:54

"Cote, do you have those definitions saved in your clipboard to minimise time typing?"

I have memorised them by now Smile

0phelia · 03/02/2016 09:54

Right, and it's not misogynistic at all to want to eradicate the word "women" and replace it with the word "people". Hmm

If a transman is pregnant, they are a woman. If a transwoman has testicular cancer they are a man for basic medical/biological purposes.

Oh, the tragic irony of the people trying to erase women whilst simultaneously wanting to become one.

IceBeing · 03/02/2016 09:55

cote I do see where you are going and I don't at all agree.

FGM is a society issue....cervical cancer is too.

It just simply isn't the case that only women and all women should care about FGM or cervical cancer detection rates.

IceBeing · 03/02/2016 09:56

I have no problem with the word 'women'....I just don't think 50% of the population should be discussed as if they are a homogenous group and have the same issues. In fact I find it sexist to do so.

MaidOfStars · 03/02/2016 09:56

Nobody's saying only women should care. It is only women that are affected.

PosieReturningParker · 03/02/2016 09:56

Ice If you lack women in your groups due to their assumption about the group that is unfounded, I would suggest it's likely that you haven't communicated the purpose of the group well.

Also how do you know they think it's because they assume it's going to talk about pregnancy and childcare? Surely if they'd told you this you could have corrected them?

0phelia · 03/02/2016 09:57

Just because not all women get pregnant, doesn't make it a non-women's issue. Certainly doesn't make it a "people's" issue.

CoteDAzur · 03/02/2016 09:57

"The point is that we could make both the trans community and a lot of XX women happier if we stopped saying 'pregnancy is a women's issue'....so why not do it?"

(1) Because it's counter-productive to lie on factual biological matters.

(2) Because doing so will make it impossible to define, focus on, and help with said women's issues.

PosieReturningParker · 03/02/2016 09:58

Ice Who is changing FGM for girls? Women, women in Bristol with their amazing campaigns, educating women in Ethiopia (to name one) where by talking to women (who perform and are cut) has reduced the numbers massively. This is a women's issue.

CoteDAzur · 03/02/2016 09:59

"FGM is a society issue."

Aha. But not all societies practice FGM so it's not a society issue either, according to your logic.

Female Genital Mutilation is by definition a female issue. Adult females are women. And therefore Female Genital Mutilation is a women's issue.

Let me know if you still have a problem with this and I'll try to explain it in another way.

0phelia · 03/02/2016 09:59

It's misogynistic to pretend women don't have their own needs that are different to "all people" (men).

0phelia · 03/02/2016 10:02

Cervical cancer is a society issue!

What waffle.....

Cote you have the patience of a saint Star

PosieReturningParker · 03/02/2016 10:03

Why are you trying to erase women Icy?

Cellardoor1 · 03/02/2016 10:07

How the fuck are pregnancy, FGM and cervical cancer not women's issues? They are things that only affect women. No one is saying that all women are affected or should care but they are still exclusive to women so clearly women's issues.

LurcioAgain · 03/02/2016 10:11

Female genital mutilation is done to women (that's biological women) because of a set of beliefs which see women (biological women) as inferior to men and part of a breeding class who need to have their sexuality controlled because of misguided beliefs about sexual purity and about making sure that only the correct socially sanctioned men (that's biological men) get to stick their penises into the vaginas of the women they "own" exclusive breeding rights to. Yes, it is often policed by women - because dominant groups often manage to coopt members of the subordinate group to do their dirty work for them by affording them a tiny bit of status relative to the rest of the subordinate group if they choose to do so.

To pretend that FGM is not about biology and the power structures which male-dominated societies bolt onto biology is to tell an extremely dangerous lie - because obscuring and denying and ignoring facts and engaging in a massive cover-up is a form of lying. It is a particularly insidious and dangerous form of lying.

LieselMeminger · 03/02/2016 10:14

Only just found this second discussion. I've been looking at the old one on Threads I'm On wondering why everyone has stopped talking...Blush

In my defence I've not been sleeping well lately.

Off to catch up on this and also the Facebook group.

On Kelly Maloney saying she "feels weaker" now, she may well do, but even with her feeling weaker, she will still have more strength than a typical woman.

PosieReturningParker · 03/02/2016 10:20

Glad Kelly feels weaker, perhaps she won't be beating up any more women!

How do I get invited to the Facebook group?

Hullygully · 03/02/2016 10:42

This says it all for me (apols if already posted):

notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/2016/01/16/we-are-all-non-binary-now/

PosieReturningParker · 03/02/2016 11:02

The non binary I'm not bothered as a ciswoman to call a transwoman woman is something I frequently hear in intersectional feminism as if you're a bigot for not calling transwomen women.

Maryz · 03/02/2016 11:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2rebecca · 03/02/2016 11:24

I think the anti-femal implications of the IOC decision will only be taken seriously when prominent respected female athletes complain about the regulations and the unfairness of them. They can ignore the rest of us as irrelevent and complaining aboutan issue that doesn't directly affect us. The women and their coaches need to start complaining before men start winning all the women's events so women stop even trying to be athletes.