Continuation thread re IOC/trans policy and related trans issues

[fidel1ne]

Also a plug for the FB group

www.facebook.com/groups/ATWIWS/

I've never met a transwoman who "passed"!

Came yesterday. Less than £3 on ebay

We should go back to segregating by biological sex
Yes, where it is appropriate. Have both 'gender identity' and 'sex' as protected characteristics and treat 'gender identity' like the 'religion' bit - a political choice that shouldn't be discriminated against in the workplace but has zero relevance to how a sport is segregated.

The thing is that there are healthcare implications of all this. If I went to A&E as a self defined "male" with stomach pain, it might have taken them to figure out that I'd got a burst ovarian cyst
To co-opt the 'There are no atheists in foxholes' meme, there are no men in an obs/gynae ward. I cannot believe that anyone would sacrifice their health or even life in order to make a political point.

The trans community seems to be demanding that HCPs ignore basic biology and treat them according to their chosen sex
This is arguably the most dangerous aspect. Because the key usefulness of categorising by biological sex is in applications where biological sex is most relevant - the healthcare setting.

I'm sure most transpeople manage their healthcare effectively, and flag with HCPs where various diagnoses, tests or interventions are perhaps appropriate or not. I'm sure a small minority will sacrafice their health on the altar of gender.

But meh, none of my business for those individuals. If someone wants to argue with a doctor that yes, ovarian cysts are a possibility, and no, he is a man, and no, he's not going anywhere until the doctor uses the male pronoun, whatever.

I DO wonder about the 21st century spike in female prostate cancer though . An alien analysing the medical history textbooks might think that females had somehow evolved a prostate. That's fucking over epidemiology, and skewing stats to create a picture that simply isn't true, and therefore dangerous for others who might not buy into the gender construct.

Similar to the prostate cancer thing, i wonder about tallying up dead bodies with missing persons in the future. If a tw has their official 'sex' status changed to female, how will that be matched with the physical male skeleton in front of them?

currently 'sex' and 'gender reassignment' ARE separate protected characteristics.

Complaining about the statement 'pregnancy is a women's issue' is actually something we should all do more of.

Childcare isn't a women's issue, its a parents issue.

Pregnancy isn't a women's issue it is a pregnant peoples issue/ issue for people who have given birth or want to give birth.

Ovarian cancer isn't a women's issue it s an issue for people in possession of ovaries (which surely doesn't include all XX women either).

I think it would be good for both the trans community and feminism if we ditched the sweeping generalizations about what things are womens issues...

currently 'sex' and 'gender reassignment' ARE separate protected characteristics
Sure, but the conflation of the two is immensely problematic.

I read that everyday feminism piece a while ago. From what I gathered, this trans woman believes that the very fact that they will be producing sperm after reducing hormones means they are 'pregnant'. I remember something about how it's 'fucked up' to be reminded that females menstruate also. Another example of women being told to shut up about their bodily functions so as not to offended these 'non menstruating' women (or men as they used to be called)

"Pregnancy isn't a women's issue it is a pregnant peoples issue/ issue for people who have given birth or want to give birth... Ovarian cancer isn't a women's issue it s an issue for people in possession of ovaries "

Um those people are women, though, as defined in any dictionary:

Woman = Adult human female.

They can sometimes unfortunately be girls' issues, but they will never be men's issues, again, as defined in any dictionary:

Man = Adult human male.

Do we also need to remember the dictionary definitions of the words female and male?

Female = Of the sex that can bear young or produce eggs.

Male = Of the sex that can produce sperm.

Pregnancy isn't a women's issue it is a pregnant peoples issue
Pregnant people are biologically female.

"I think it would be good for both the trans community and feminism if we ditched the sweeping generalizations about what things are womens issues..."

How exactly is it going to be a good thing for feminism to ditch any meaningful definition of women's issues?

but not all biological females have a pregnancy issue.

so it isn't a women's issue is it?

Cote, do you have those definitions saved in your clipboard to minimise time typing?

cote because we would get back on board all the women who hate it when they hear that childcare is a womens issue, because they have no children, don't want any children and think it has nothing to do with them.

Remember labours pink bus? Attempting to appeal to all women as a homogenous group has been a shit idea for some time....

Oh no, not the "not all women" line of questioning.

Not all humans hear and yet we would still describe the five senses as sight, hearing, touch, taste and speak (is that right/)

The point is that we could make both the trans community and a lot of XX women happier if we stopped saying 'pregnancy is a women's issue'....so why not do it?

It is a women's issue.

It's not a transwomens issue or a men's issue.

Pregnancy is a global issue for women.

We have constant issues getting women in our place of work on board with any work on diversity and equality because they think it is all about pregnancy and childcare and carers leave etc. and none of that applies to them.

Why should we classify things that don't affect a substantial minority of women as 'women's issues'?

I'm not sure I really worry about some women who don't think childcare is a women's issue, it is. We are the most affected group by the issue of childcare. What's the deal here?

Smell, posie

I'd say you have an issue with how you communicate with the women about what your meetings are about.

how does it help to generalize? pregnancy is an issue that directly affects about 40% of the worlds population...that is enough surely, to take it seriously? You don't have to coopt another unwilling 10% as well do you?

hahaha Sorry! I just couldn't think!

I'm now going to list all the countries in Europe....

Pregnancy affects more than 80% of women, even if it's just an attempt to stop it.

Thank you diagnosing on the basis of sweet FA information that the real problem is my communication skills...a classic keyboard warrior diagnosis for the scrap book